Magic Johnson Discussion

This is an arbitrary number, body fat % calculations are also incredibly inconsistent and reveal very little about fitness. Check some YouTube videos on how widely supposedly good methods of checking body fat are wildly inconsistent. Then look at a Body issue from ESPN (or just look at athletes) and see that different physiques are effective for different goals. Magic's mindset is so 80s.

 

I just saw this - after posting magic is stuck in the 80s. So I definitely agree with the general sentiment.

 

I agree with Zen's main point here, the specific number of 7-8% is silly. As far as I know that might be fine for some pro athletes, and unhealthy for others, part of it would seem to be body type. I understand what Magic is saying, he wants our players to work on their bodies and be in the best shape of their lives. A number of them do need to work on their NBA bodies and conditioning, we got ourworked far too often this season. The body fat number is silly though, it's like he threw out a number in hopes the players will try to reach it and get their % as low as possible, and I doubt they're that stupid or easily motivated or they'd have done this already.

 

BMI is notoriously difficult to judge based off of individual body types. Mostly because without extensive biological testing it's very difficult to get an accurate fat to muscle ratio. The body fat percentage that you see on that board is likely an estimate.

What @ZenMaster says is accurate: a blanket statement on body fat percentage is incorrect. If I'm being honest though, I think Magic just doesn't mean what he's saying. It sounds like a classic answer from someone who doesn't necessarily know nutrition, but knows some verbiage. I think what he meant was, "we want everyone to get in here healthier and stronger than they've ever been." That just manifests itself as a body fat answer.

Guys like Ingram and Clarkson honestly shouldn't ever worry about their body fat percentage. They can put on some fat actually because it'll help with their muscle growth. Not a lot mind you, but a bit. This body fat concern is important for guys like Russell, Randle, and Zubac who all could be much better off. Randle has notoriously short bursts of energy. Russell could be much stronger. Zubac can lose a lot of fat and gain more muscle.

I also think it's more of a mindset than an ultimatum. See who comes back into the picture with greater focus and dedication. If someone comes back to camp and they're as out of shape as they were the year before, then they're clearly not dedicated to improving. If they come back and they're clearly in better shape, then they're ready to go and we can trust them to work harder going forward.

 

I still think that the mention of body fat is a step too far away from what we should really be interested in.

Randle's energy is likely about diet and training. Not about body fat per se.

Russell's strength is likely about diet and training. Not about body fat per se.

Zu's shape is about never lifting and having a teenager diet. Not about body fat per se.

If any one of them should worry at all about body fat, it's Zu. But perhaps even he shouldn't. Karl Malone played an iron man career with lots of weight on his frame.

On one hand, we use body fat as a proxy for "in shape," but it's not even a good proxy. Lots of lean people are in terrible shape. Lots of high BMI people are in incredible shape - like NFL running backs. Lots of higher body fat % people are in incredible shape - like linemen. Even in big guys like Zubac, the concern isn't about how much fat he has. It's about whether he can play effectively without too much damage to his joints. Z-bo is really good at basketball, but he's not going to score well on these metrics. There are lots of guys with good physiques who can't get out of the D-league. I'm definitely over analyzing now, but Magic should think more before speaking. When you're the face of a franchise, you have to be more thoughtful.

 

We really need the draft lottery to come around. This is a pretty weird conversation to be lasting this long. I know it's the offseason and all, but man. Can we just all agree that everyone needs to come into camp looking like Chris Hemsworth?

 

Zen admitted he's a hater and I think it's hyperbole to react like this request from management is a bad thing.

Again, Magic has never been all that eloquent. He's an intelligent person, but he doesn't have a strong way with words. He's not as articulate as say Rob Pelinka is. The idea that demanding excellence in conditioning is somehow negative is something I can't wrap my head around.

The ultimatum isn't even about the body fat percentage as much as it is about their work ethic. I guarantee you if Randle and Russell come in to camp with the same calculable BMI, but obviously stronger and leaner bodies there won't be some arbitrary repercussions. It's about whether or not the young kids can hold themselves to a higher standard and that's a great thing. Some of these players do need to come into camp with a better body fat percentage. I'm thinking about Deng, Zubac, Randle, and Russell. Nance, Mozgov, Ennis, Tarik, and Nick (if he's still around) can get leaner and stronger too. Clarkson and Ingram could probably put a little fat on and still be okay, but their metabolisms are different from the rest of the team's.

It's unhealthy to make a blanket statement like "everyone should be under 10% body fat", but it's not wrong that they should be better than they are. Zubac at 18% is awful for basically any type of athlete and certainly awful for a basketball player. There's no reason guys like Randle and Russell couldn't shed a couple percentage points from 12 to 10 or something like that and still be in a healthy weight range.

Magic and Rob are absolutely on the right track here. Any kid who shows up to camp and isn't in better shape than when he left is a problem. Any kid who gets here and thinks camp is a time for him to play into shape is a problem. They've got three months to improve themselves and I absolutely love that they're being put in this position. I'm not worried about the specific numbers, that's just some target you give so that the kids take it seriously.

As for taking shots at Magic's BMI, I mean 1st of all sports science is a completely different animal than it was 30 years ago. It's changing constantly and it's certainly grown far beyond anything Magic (or anyone) in the early 80s knew about. And 2nd of all Magic played at an elite level as soon as his sneakers hit the hardwood. If Russell and Randle had lead us to a ring in these first two years, I wouldn't be so concerned about their physical shape. Instead they've lead us to less than 50 wins in two seasons and I'm questioning not just their conditioning, but their mentality and their heart as well.

 

I don't see that. We've got Luke in charge and the FO has been resolute in their support for him.

I don't want foxholes anymore, but I also don't to mollycoddle our kids and let them think 20 wins a year is an acceptable outcome. We've got to hold them to a higher standard and they've got to hold themselves to a higher standard. Once they start winning games, they can have as much fun as they want. The Warriors have a blast, but they're also winning 65 games a year. To get there, we've got to improve and I think this is just a way to encourage them to do so.

I won't defend Magic's actual words because it really seems like that manager who doesn't know the specifics so they throw around words that they think sound right. It would be like me going up to a computer coder and saying, "control, alt, delete! Am I right?" I think Magic's head is in the right place he just doesn't know how to say it.

 

I do agree that this is an arbitrary number. Look:

Zubac does not need to worry about his body fat. He needs to grow, lift, eat good food, work on his post moves. He's a 7-1 center, and he needs to be able to play significant minutes, but his body fat % is irrelevant. It could be 15% if he has enough musclemass to bang with centers in this league and his stamina is solid.

Ingram. He does even need to lose weight to lower body fat %. He's too skinny and has no real muscle mass. Once he adds few hard lbs of muscle, his body fat % will go down automatically.

Russ. Completely irrelevant for the way he plays.

Randle - stamina, focus. Work on midrange jumper and don't be a black hole on offense sometimes. Again, body fat % doesn't mean anything to him, except if it really wrecks his stamina. I'm not sure that it does.

Calderon has low body fat, good for him. But how does that exactly help anyone on the team? Why not simply say: "we want our players to show up for camp in shape, ready to play heavy minutes when we need them."


Other than that - I just looked at those whiteboards. Yeah, that looks about right, although the measurements are not always precise. You don't need someone like Young to be at 8% BF. Why? He looks like a basketball player and is extremely mobile and athletic. Robinson is a freak, plain and simple. I'm at ~10.5% right now, probably getting to slightly sub 10% for the beach this summer and most people would think I look ripped for a guy my age (but I would not be able to play full court bball with these guys for more than 10 minutes) . So, they are focusing on these numbers too much. They don't mean anything to a professional athlete. You're either able to play at the high level or you're not.



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