Presidential Election Aftermath: What Now / What Next?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion and Philosophy -(FORUM CLOSED)-' started by davriver209, Aug 11, 2015.

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  1. John3:16

    John3:16 Moderator Staff Member

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    While on the campaign trail, Trump talked about Carrier air conditioning plant moving to Mexico and said if he were president, they'd be staying.

    President Obama mocked this and said, "how? he doesn't have a magic wand (to keep them from leaving)."

    Today it was announced that Carrier is staying in Indiana, based on the negotiations of Trump and Pence.

    No word from President Obama.
     
    John3:16, Nov 30, 2016
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  2. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

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    Yeah, but what was the deal?
     
    Barnstable, Nov 30, 2016
    #1882
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  3. John3:16

    John3:16 Moderator Staff Member

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    Forbes said Indiana would pay $700,000 per year to Carrier. But I haven't verified. If true, that's $700 per employee. suffice to say, those 1000 employees will pay more in taxes and spend more in the state. Smart investment and those employees didn't lose their jobs.

    Win for Trump. Win for Indiana. Win for Carrier. Win for 1000 employees and their families. Only one person lost and that's a win in my book.
     
    John3:16, Nov 30, 2016
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  4. TIME

    TIME Administrator Staff Member

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    Trump's going to make a lot of rookie mistakes, but he is also going to do some good like this Carrier deal that no other President would even attempt.
     
    TIME, Dec 1, 2016
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  5. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

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    As I read this, my first thought was "so now big corporations can just threaten to take their business to other countries and hold us hostage?" Next I read a piece by Bernie basically echoing the same sentiment. This sets a bad president for capitulating to corporations, and it also goes against what Trump said he was going to do by being tough on corporations that tried to take jobs from the US. I am not a fan of this.

    I'm on my phone, but here's Bernie's piece:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/post...onald-trump/?tid=sm_tw&utm_term=.d9a009049065
     
    Barnstable, Dec 1, 2016
    #1885
  6. TIME

    TIME Administrator Staff Member

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    Corporations have been leaving the USA by the droves already. What Trump said, if I remember correctly, was along the lines that he would ding their imports once they moved to affect their bottom line. That threat was most likely part of his negotiation with Carrier. This seems like a win to me, and I'm pretty sure it seems like a win to Carrier's employees.
     
    TIME, Dec 1, 2016
    #1886
  7. lakerfan2

    lakerfan2 - Lakers All Star -

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    The issue here isn't about the jobs staying, or the punishment of companies taking their jobs overseas, or taxing imports, it's that by staying, United Technologies, the parent company,...a company that has contracts with the Federal Government, essentially gets a tax break.

    Giving large corporations tax breaks only makes matters worse for the US trying to recover from a deficit.

    On paper it looks nice, and with people getting jobs back, but the underlying issue here is the drop in tax revenue from companies if this is the way going forward for ALL companies looking to stay.

    It's trickle down economics to the core.
     
    lakerfan2, Dec 1, 2016
    #1887
  8. John3:16

    John3:16 Moderator Staff Member

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    Dell Computers opened a factory / warehouse about 5 miles from my house. To get them here, the state gave tax breaks. This is nothing new.

    Could other companies threaten to leave in an effort to get money? Sure. The risk is there.

    Bottom line: 1000 to 1400 people are employed today.
     
    John3:16, Dec 1, 2016
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  9. TIME

    TIME Administrator Staff Member

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    I'm pretty sure you are wrong on this. Over taxing and over regulating corporations has been killing the economy. Easing up on both will stimulate it. The result is people will be paid more, and people will spend more. Everyone wins. Of course the people at the top of the corporate ladders will win big, but I really don't care about them. The people at the top of every economic system find a way to win. Ask Fidel Castro and his billion dollar savings account in Switzerland.
     
    TIME, Dec 1, 2016
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  10. lakerfan2

    lakerfan2 - Lakers All Star -

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    But that's the whole basis of trickle down economics, isn't it TIME?

    That's the whole reason why Reaganomics failed.

    The idea that people would be "paid more" is what bought a lot of backers, but it didn't work. The money that is typically saved by companies through tax breaks rarely makes it down the ladder to the people.

    Yes, they will have jobs, but they will not get paid what they expect. It isn't until the company makes a considerable amount of profit is when those people get to see any sort of benefit. But what happens to most of the money is that more and more companies would start solely for the benefit of the tax breaks. Then the money never "trickles down" to the people.
     
    lakerfan2, Dec 1, 2016
    #1890
  11. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    Did Reagonomics really fail?

    GDP went up, median family income went up, unemployment went down, the Federal government was actually receiving more money as well in taxes even though people were earning more money. The greatest mistake of Reagan's presidency was his ballooning the national debt.

    I'm not calling Reaganomics perfect, but there is concrete evidence that the market was stimulated and vibrant. There were mistakes as well, but right now the country is in dire need of positive stimulation.
     
    therealdeal, Dec 1, 2016
    #1891
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  12. lakerfan2

    lakerfan2 - Lakers All Star -

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    That was the whole point of my conjecture though real. It said that the jobs staying were great, and I agree that people will spend money, but the issue is with the government and with this style of economic policy, is not viable for the an already crumbling infrastructure.

    While the government was receiving more money in taxes, the debt is where we hurt most, and that is the one area the US can't afford to take on more debt.
     
    lakerfan2, Dec 1, 2016
    #1892
  13. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    Well the government spending can be capped. I don't know that increased debt really was the result of Reaganomics as much as a result of Reagan spending money. Just like the rest of the country who didn't save anything, Reagan did the same. I think you can still stimulate the economy and save/use the money coming in a positive way. I'm not an economist so I'm sure there's more nuance to what I have in mind, but I still think Reaganomics would be helpful right now. The unemployment rate is unacceptable and the middle class is drowning so obviously this way isn't working either.
     
    therealdeal, Dec 1, 2016
    #1893
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  14. lakerfan2

    lakerfan2 - Lakers All Star -

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    Definitely not, but keep in mind, George Bush also implemented a similar economic policy to Reagan and what Trump has planned in place which, on top of the conflicts with the Middle East, skyrocketed the debt to what it was and put unemployment at the highest it ever was since the Great Depression.

    Obama couldn't simply make that disappear and his policies failed and dug us deeper.

    I'm just hoping with Trump's International Affairs experience, we don't fall into another war which would be the death of our economy.
     
    lakerfan2, Dec 1, 2016
    #1894
  15. TIME

    TIME Administrator Staff Member

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    I agree with what @therealdeal posted above. But, I AM concerned that Trump will overspend and not really address the national debt. The guy has a history of stimulating economic progress and then massively overspending.
     
    TIME, Dec 1, 2016
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  16. John3:16

    John3:16 Moderator Staff Member

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    General Mattis agrees to be Secretary of Defense. Absolutely great hire. I can't stress enough how much the Marines love this man.

    General Mattis is against Waterboarding and any other form of torture. He reportedly told Trump "give me a pack of cigarettes and a couple beers and I'll get more information out of them." That impressed Trump and led to his hire and Trump reversing his position on torture.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2016
    John3:16, Dec 1, 2016
    #1896
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  17. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

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    Out of a reported 2300 or so jobs. So he saved about half of the jobs, but still set a bad president.

    Also, keep in mind Pence is still the Governer in Indiana for the rest of the month. Watch who gets what money/favors very carefully with this one.
     
    Barnstable, Dec 1, 2016
    #1897
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  18. Azndude2190

    Azndude2190 - Lakers 6th Man -

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    Not sure if this was mentioned yet, but with regard to debt; it's not inherently something bad. And it's not comparable to your own personal debt because the government can print money.

    Yes, that could potentially be really bad, because it can cause severe inflation, but right now inflation is at historical lows and interest on 10 year t-bonds are also at a historical low. That and treasury bonds themselves, are one of the safest forms of investment, as we've never defaulted on any of our bonds when they have come due, and they do not all come due at once. Also, sometimes our inflation is higher than the interest, and in those years we make money from the debt.

    Keep in mind also, that a portion of that 19 trillion figure I see thrown around, is money the government owes to itself, the biggest of which comes from the SS trust fund. So really it's kind of meaningless in terms of the solvency of the federal government. The actual "debt held by the public" is closer to 14 trillion.

    That said, what's actually important is how much economic output the country produces annually and as long as the debt grows at a similar rate to our GDP, it's not a problem. And the last time I checked our debt as a % of GDP is much lower than most other developed countries.

    Here's a video, which is 4 years old, but still kind of echoes the same sentiment.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2016
    Azndude2190, Dec 1, 2016
    #1898
  19. LTLakerFan

    LTLakerFan - Lakers Legend -

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    Thank you. I think. First time I've ever read anything that made me not feel horrified with how much our country owes. :clap: :rock:
     
    LTLakerFan, Dec 1, 2016
    #1899
  20. John3:16

    John3:16 Moderator Staff Member

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    Opinion on economic growth never being above 3% under Obama ? I would say that's as telling how our economy is doing as anything else.
     
    John3:16, Dec 1, 2016
    #1900
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