I agree that another problem Rondo poses on the Lakers is with his poor shooting. I agree with T, at the 1 we need a money shooter who doesn't need the ball to be effective. Rondo's inability to shoot would definitely lend to some floor spacing issues. I'd rather us focus on getting a passing, D-playing big, another Trevor Ariza type (Draymond Green?), and a Mario Chalmers type at the 1. Chalmers/Lin/Clarkson Kobe/???/Clarkson Draymond Green/Swaggy/Kelly Hill/Randle/Kelly Gasol/Davis/Sacre
Doc, he also went 5-17 from the field. We might have been able to afford that with prime Kobe - but not with this Kobe. Does anyone have numbers on Rondo's numbers off the catch or off a cut? Curious what percentage of his FGA's come without him dribbling into the field goal, and what percentage of those are jump shots versus layups.
5-17 doesn't matter It's what he does with his possessions overall - which is consume them and create a s***load of points off them.
He shoots 47% from the field for his career. Is 5-17 really reflective of what his average is over a larger span of games? Something he has shown a trend for is getting triple doubles and being able to manage an offense with a bunch of superstar players. There are other things you could say we can't afford with Rondo, but to say he shot 5-17 one game when his career trend shows otherwise, isn't very convincing to not go out and get him.
He has been shooting a very bad 46 TS% without the big 3. His scoring efficiency has usually been about average, but now, it's really bad. To score efficiently for guards, they need to hit 3s. If they don't hit a lot of 3s, they need to be able to hit free throws. Rondo does neither well. This year, approximately 35% of his shots have been 2pt pull up shots (one or more dribble that leads to a jumper). He's hit 26.4% of them, which is about Ronnie Price's level. 35% of Price's attempts are also 2pt pull ups and he hits 25% of them. About 11% of his shots have been catch and shoot jumpers. He hits about 37.5% of them. Rondo drives to the basket about 7.1 times a game and shoots 50% from drives. To get an idea for this, that's 0.22 drives per minute. Lin attempts 0.21 drives per minute and also scores 50% from drives. Lin's drives result in 7.3 points per game for the team (about 1.2 points per drive). Rondo's drives result in 6.6 points per game for his team (about 0.9 points per drive). Rondo is #2 (behind only MCW from the 76ers) in touches per game. That is more than Kobe, who is 54th. He has the lowest points per touch out of the top 200. I didn't bother checking past that. The second lowest is our very own Ronnie Price.
Sometimes it feels like you all won't be satisfied until we have only perfect players on our teams. Rondo has shown me three things: 1. He's a winner, 2. He's a fantastic PG, and 3. He's available this summer if we have the balls to go get him. There's arguments for not bringing him here, but talent and effectiveness to me aren't among them. He's expensive. He's somewhat injury prone. A four-year contract makes him 32 when it's all said and done. But he's one of the very best players in the NBA. He's generally efficient. He's a triple-double threat every single game from the PG spot. There's enough to be said about that where I am comfortable giving him whatever we need to give so he's wearing our jersey next season.
I ask only because I don't know what to make of the stats people sometimes cite. Is the claim that Rondo can't space a floor? Or what should we draw from these stats?
I'm just drawing on the fact that for a MAX player he better be able to be a little more consistent at scoring and shooting in general to be worth that kind of money. Over the last week or so that this forum has had this Rondo discussion I have been torn either way of wanting him and not. But after seeing him so far this year and seeing some of the stats people are citing I dont think we should go after him if it means having to give him the MAX. As good a play-maker and distributor that Rondo is I need him to do more than that for the MAX. The D that he used to provide isn't what it used to be. Another major objection I have with Rondo on the Lakers is that I still think Kobe isn't always going to let him handle the ball as much. I'm not saying Kobe is selfish or anything life that because hes great friends and respects Rondo's game but I just dont see it all being worth it. And even if Rondo gets the ball more I dont think we would have enough money to bring in some pieces to make him that much more effective. It's early in the year and things can change but if someone where to force me to make a decision 'today' regarding giving Rondo a Max deal to join the Lakers I would not want us to do that. I just thought I would put my name in the hat of where everyone stands on this Rondo discussion.
I don't think Lin's better than Rondo, but I wouldn't ever think about signing Rondo if he's going to command $20 million. Even at $15 million, I don't think I would want him. What I draw from these stats is that Rondo consumes more possessions than nearly anybody else in the league. He's #2 on that list even though he only plays about 32 to 33 mpg. We think Kobe handles the ball too much? No, Rondo handles way more. When you're consuming that many possessions and can't even score 10 ppg, that recipe will not lead to a contending team. If you can't even score 10 points per game efficiently (more field goal attempts than actual points), I don't see a contending team. With all these possessions, it's natural to expect that Rondo also leads the league in 2 categories - passes per game and assists per game. How helpful are these assists? Imo, he does still help his teammates, but not to the point most people here think because you can overpass. Calderon is another PG who I think overpasses. Regardless, is his passing enough to offset the absolute crap he brings in terms of scoring? I don't think so. Another problem I see is that Kobe will handle the ball at least 50% of the time. Yes, Kobe will delegate some of that responsibility to Rondo, but I'd rather not take that gamble. Even when Nash first came here, Kobe handled the ball a majority of the time. Imo, the best type of PG that we can put next to Kobe is a guy who can do these things in this order: 1. Shoot the ball 2. Defend 3. Occasionally handle the ball and create for others Someone like Mike Conley would be great for me, but he's unfortunately not available.
Honestly that's all I need to know about your assessment, my man. I'm not worried about how he'll work with Kobe. At least that's not nearly my main focus. My main focus is: can this guy be at least a #2 on a Championship team and I think that's absolutely true.
The stats thk posted are important because it gives us an idea of how he'd fit in LA with Kobe. He won't come to LA and get the same number of touches he does in Boston. Rondo might be a 47% career guy but he's not the floor spacer we need. In the last year with KG & Pierce in 10-11, he only hit 10 3PT on the season. BT nailed, it - it's the idea that the guy is a terrible 3PT and FT shooter, and jump shooter in general, and is going to command a Max deal. Where he might command that is the defensive end and we have a huge need there. We're not looking for the perfect player, we're looking for the perfect fit. I'd rather spend our max on a guy like Gasol and get a pg who's a good fit. A defensive pg that can shoot and space the floor. Rondo isn't the perfect fit for this team, but I'll take him if a better plan isn't on the table.
I don't know that there is or isn't a "better" plan than Rondo, but it's getting less and less likely that Gasol leaves Memphis. He's already indicated he'll stay and the Grizzlies have said they'll do what it takes to keep him. He's also said he only wants to play for a winner or a team dedicated to winning. I think we qualify for one of those but he's too old for a rebuild.
as you said, i'm going based on player value, but i'm also considering the obvious front office stance. the money is clearly being hoarded for a-list stars (top 30 types). next year, that's rondo, m. gasol, aldridge. rondo's the most realistic "get" there. i'm not even sure the lakers FO would give monroe the 12 per i suggested, quite frankly. i also agree with you and others that i'd be trying to nail down a couple of value starters whilst waiting for godot, but that doesn't seem like it's in the cards. so, given the strategy, hill and lin need to be viewed as players that could potentially bring back cheaper assets to be deployed later. because there's no way the lakers are signing either to a long-term deal unless it's a discount/steal like young was.
I'm thinking Lin might end up coming back for cheap if he keeps this up actually. Doc pointed out that he's basically showing himself to be Ramon Sessions out there. Sessions' last deal was pretty reasonable I think around 2 million. Lin is worth about 4-5 with his marketability and ability to move merchandise. Definitely a backup though. I personally dig Monroe, but I get not going after him. I think Rondo is definitely their main target this summer and they're almost assuredly going to offer a max contract. That leaves precious little space for another big addition so it's bargain bin hunting after that. A Rondo/Lin rotation though sounds pretty good to me. I'd be on board if we could swing it.
I am dubious of this get the star and the ring chaser will follow mentality. It might work on ring 3 of a threepeat, or with Lebron, or maybe Durant ( was very tempted to Anthony Davis too but too soon). I think you need to build the team and the infrastructure to get a A++ player or the A A- star like Carmello has shown himself to be. I am also wary of making the next big player we sign a default max 20 million dollar player. We always have to get them on four or five year contracts and how many prove that good. I realize this is the price of getting a star. It just seems a high quality coach is more valuable in giving us a value. That being said, who do I want for 2015. i like Rondo and feel he would have a kinship with kobe - though it may turn out to be an Alien vs Predator type respect ( Kobe is the predator in this scenario) I think the draft is were we retool and freeagency is where we ice the cake. Randle is such a loss this year and it's not even funny. I like Marc Gasol too. I just feel before we have a real structure coach, identity, objective (rebuild or contend) we are not an option for a lot of players. Gasol ain't moving unfortunately. Steph Curry would be my dream pg, his team has to stop having teen game winning streaks etc. Confusion.
At this point I dont even know if Lin will want to stick around in LAL period. He's looked really lost and like he doesnt really want to be hear the last few games. THis is just my impression on how he looks and acts during games and going into timeouts.
