Official 2016 Free Agency Thread

Discussion in 'Lakers Discussion' started by LaVarBallsDad, Nov 16, 2015.

  1. Battle Tested20

    Battle Tested20 Moderator Staff Member

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    I agree, everyone is overreacting as usual. Same thing was happening with Demar.

    Not saying he hasn't been bad. Barnes has been awful but just like how hard I am on Demar and why I dont want him because of him having poor playoff performances as the #1-2 player on that team the last 3 years, Barnes had 2 really bad Finals games on the biggest stage. But considering he is the 4-5 best player on the team he had made a lot of big shots for them and still can in Game 7. Not all about pts with him. Defend and rebound the ball.
     
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  2. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    The problem with Barnes is, and has been all year for me, that despite his ability to do some of everything, he often does mostly nothing. He has a great deal of talent, but almost never shows it off. He's not all that different from any other athletic forward type we've seen burn out over the years, just a bit smarter than those guys. His career numbers are remarkably consistent and he hasn't improved dramatically since coming in as a freshman. He's made small strides in shooting percentage and assist-to-turnover ratio, but part of that I'm sure is the system/pieces he's playing with.

    In the playoffs he's averaged 31 minutes per game and yet is only putting up 9 points, 4.8 rebounds, and 1.3 assists. He's shooting just 38.9% from the field and 33.3% from deep. And once again, those numbers are just remarkably consistent with his career average in the playoffs with a slightly worse shooting percentage than usual.

    Unlike DeMar or even Biyombo, Harrison hasn't had a single stand out performance in these playoffs, let alone the Finals. Biyombo single handedly dominated games at times with his energy on the glass. DeMar scored over 30 points 5 times in the playoffs. Harrison has had no games with more than three assists, no games over 20 points, no games with more than one block, and only one game with more than 10 rebounds. He's had opportunity after opportunity after opportunity to stand out and create a name for himself in these playoffs and this season, but he didn't take that step forward like I'd hoped.

    I'm no longer sure I'm willing to pay him long-term what it'd take to get him away from the Warriors. If he's not going to step up now when the time calls for it, why would he do it later?
     
  3. gcclaker

    gcclaker Moderator Staff Member

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    ^No question Barnes has the talent but he has been oddly underwhelming... That is the issue I have with him. If he had Green's aggressive mindset at both ends, he'd be tearing it up.
     
  4. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    Exactly. I'm worried he's just not focused enough to be anything more than a role player. He's shown almost no glimpses of anything more than that and are we really willing to pay upwards of 15-20 million for that when we're likely to have Ingram on board in a week?
     
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  5. Weezy

    Weezy Moderator Staff Member

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    That's why I said I'd rather spend half the money on an Ariza type than a Barnes. Why pay double for the same production a lot of role players will give you? I'd pay that for DeRozan, because he's an all-star that can help you get back to the playoffs, but in this case I'm with the Lakers when they say they won't overpay for mediocrity.
     
  6. gcclaker

    gcclaker Moderator Staff Member

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    Barnes has a very "comfortable" gig with Golden State...he's entrenched within their system and have an established relationship their coaching staff. If he gets a nice upgrade in pay, he'd sign on board with them again. I'd rather have Ingram if we draft him grow on the job. My concern with that is he will need a mentor so a veteran at his position will be of some use.
     
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  7. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm very interested in Luol Deng and Joakim Noah for that exact reason. Two guys who are quality veterans both on and off the court. We'd probably have to pay a ton of money to convince them to join a bad team, but those are investments that I think would really pay off long-term.
     
  8. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

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    I wonder if we could start both at $15m and beef up the bench more.
     
  9. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    I think both of them would be interested in a 4/60 million type of deal, but it may need to be even more than that since we'd have very little chance at the playoffs.

    The cool thing is though that even with 30 million in those two, we'd still have a max slot open.
     
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  10. abeer3

    abeer3 - Lakers Legend -

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    i'd take deng and noah, but i still like barnes more than deng if we're trying to build something. deng has a ton of mileage (thanks, thibs!), and there's no telling when he's going to hit that wall. it's why he got a short deal last time around, i think. in short, i think if you go the deng/noah route, you pay them both big numbers on short deals. 3/60 million, team option on third year. the market will dictate whether the 60 is too big a number, but i'm thinking that's what it would take to draw veterans to a team that's not going to be in title contention.

    back to barnes: i don't think he really gets a chance to shine in gs. he's largely a catch and shoot guy, and yes, he appears to have lost confidence (after hitting some huge shots against okc, btw). in terms of aggressiveness, re-watch game three of this series, when he was the only guy who really bothered to show on either end. i think in a bigger role, he can do more. we may not get to find out, though.

    all that said, i'm starting to think that barnes is going to have to wait out FA anyway, so the lakers might not have to choose between him and others. they can chase others and if they strike out, make a big offer to barnes.
     
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  11. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    Maxs should be very very roughly:

    0-6 years: 22 million
    7-9 years: 27 million
    10+ years: 31 million

    Of course Pincus has become a cap guru and will make my predictions seem completely stupid:



     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2016
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  12. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    My point though has never been "can he" because I believe whole-heartedly that he can. He has tremendous natural ability. I don't know if he WILL though. I'm not sure he ever reaches his potential given four years without true growth. I'm pretty sure he is now what he will be pretty much forever. I'm okay with that because what he is now is a competent role player, but I'm not sure he's worth the price tag anymore.
     
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  13. abeer3

    abeer3 - Lakers Legend -

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    yeah, i quibble with the idea that he's just ariza. they ask him to be ariza, but he can do more. i've seen it, as have you. maybe if you consistently ask these things, he grows more as a player. you have to gamble a bit in FA, particularly when you're a beggar.
     
  14. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    Right, but the gamble I'd rather take is on overpriced veterans than waaaaay overpriced role players. Barnes is still likely to command far north of 15 million. I'd rather gamble on a couple older, injury prone guys who are great for our locker room and bring good things to the floor.
     
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  15. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    My projections ended up being pretty damn close actually. :D :D
     
  16. sirronstuff

    sirronstuff - Lakers Legend -

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    Mitch about to be like....

    [​IMG]
     
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  17. Helljumper

    Helljumper - Lakers All Star -

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    As bad as Barnes has been, I'd still take him for $20 million than Deng for $15 million (unless Deng was willing to come on a short term deal). Deng is just a role player at this stage in his career. A good role player and a veteran presence, but we know what we're getting. He's not going to get better with age. With Barnes, worst case he's a solid role player. Best case, he starts putting things together and uses that natural talent to step up to the next level now that he's not playing fourth fiddle on the Warriors.
     
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  18. sirronstuff

    sirronstuff - Lakers Legend -

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  19. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

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    That's true. Some weird, front-loaded deals are possible.
     
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  20. LaVarBallsDad

    LaVarBallsDad - Lakers Legend -

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    The Portland Trail Blazers made two moves at today's NBA trade deadline. They received forward Anderson Varejao from the Cleveland Cavaliers along with an unspecified first-round pick in exchange for a future second-rounder. They also picked up point guard Brian Roberts from the Miami Heat along with a second-round pick. They are expected to waive Varejao and retain Roberts through the end of the season, when his contract expires. They waived guard Tim Frazier in the process.

    The official press release from the Trail Blazers regarding the Varejao deal is brief, containing only a single quote:


    "This was an opportunistic way to use our cap room to acquire a valuable asset," said [President of Basketball Operations Neil] Olshey.

    Prior to these moves, the Blazers sat roughly $14 million below the NBA's minimum salary cap threshold, defined by the Collective Bargaining Agreement between the league and its players. Had the Blazers not made these deals, they'd be required to cut a check to their current players for that amount at the end of the season, to be distributed among the roster.

    With these moves, the Blazers all but eliminate that obligation. After the trades are finalized, the cap obligations of Varejao ($9.6 million plus a trade kicker) and Roberts ($2.8 million) will bring the Blazers close to the cap threshold. The amount they owe to their current roster will be negligible.

    But here's the real twist. Because they're picking up both players midway through the season, the Blazers only pay them for the amount of time served in a Portland uniform. The number on the cap books says $13-million-ish combined, but the Blazers will only end up paying around $4 million in real salary to Varejao and Roberts.

    Varejao has partially-guaranteed years remaining on his contract. When they waive him, the Blazers will use the salary cap stretch provision to spread their payments on that remaining amount over 5 years, resulting in an obligation of $2 million per year...$10 million total. Added to the $4 million they owe this year, that makes $14 million.


    Key Point: The Blazers would have paid $14 million at the end of the year had they made no moves today. The Blazers pay the same $14 million (spread out over a number of years) with the moves they made. The financials are essentially a wash, give or take a million.

    The big difference, of course, is the first-round pick acquired from Cleveland in the process. For the Blazers, that's the equivalent of finding a quarter lying on the ground. It cost them almost nothing...just the willingness to accept a trade and shuffle reserve point guards. The pick not only gives them an extra player to draft, it allows them more flexibility in future trades. They have another trade asset now and they wiggle free of the Stepien Rule which prevents teams from leaving themselves without first-round picks in consecutive years. Portland owes its 2016 first-round pick to Denver but protection clauses tie up Portland's ability to trade first-rounders through 2019. This eases that burden.

    The only thing as yet unclear about these deals is the status of the promised pick from Cleveland. According to RealGM's future draft obligation page, the Cavaliers owe their first-round pick this year to Phoenix. It's lottery protected, and the terms of that protection run through 2019. Technically that means the Cavaliers should not be able to promise Portland a first-round pick until 2021, unless Phoenix and Cleveland have agreed to waive the protection clause. The Columbian's Erik Gundersen offers this:


    It doesn't solve the issue. The official press release describes only a "future first round pick". We'll bring you more details as they evolve.

    http://www.blazersedge.com/2016/2/18/11055012/nba-trades-deadline-anderson-varejao-brian-roberts

    Or do what good GM's do and use it creatively like Olshey.
     
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