Nobody plays defense not because they don't want but because they can't. And that cannot be fixed with this group of guys. Randle will always be a subpar defender with short arms and no blocking ability, Russell will always have slow feet compared to other PGs, Clarkson doesn't have the best instincts nor the height. As much as people want this core to "grow together" and use stats to show improvements. One thing is a constant with this team and has been for several years now. This team doesn't have defensive talent. Nance has potential but will not have enough offense. Without 2 way players you can only win if your offense is amazing which ours is not. I'm really curious to see how we can solve this problem. No matter what the current team does, they aren't very good defensively. When you are bad...there is hope you can improve. But when you are dead last or 2nd to last in literally every defensive category...even if you improve by A LOT you might still be below average and that is not going to cut it.
I said in the Clarkson thread that I think we need a 3 and D player at both the sf and sg positions. Clarkson is a solid 3rd guard in a 3 guard rotation. But I don't see us ever developing into a championship contender if JC is our starting sg...I mean, unless we have like Russell, Lebron, Durant and Cousins at the other 4 spots. I think a Whiteside/Batum offseason (assuming Whiteside can continue to be the player he currently is and not balloon after signing his monster contract) would do a TON to help our youngsters defensive tendencies. Then try to get a sg next offseason.
I've personally never bought into the "can"t" play defense idea at this level. Over the years we've seen plenty of guys with lesser athleticism be top defensive players. Defense is about commitment and team scheme. We are lacking in certain areas and while these guys may never be defensive jugglernauts , but I don't think some of the listed players shortcomings is the real problem.
Our defensive talent is lacking, but our defensive habits are poor too. We really need a coaching change to really see what this squad can do defensively.
sort of disagree. i think russell already looks better on d than most 19 year old pgs. great instincts, uses his size well, actually doesn't get beat in isolation very often. needs to get stronger on screens and work on off-ball focus, but i'm not worried about him defending. he's not slow. clarkson is small, and that will be a problem. randle seems to have no court awareness, and that may continue to be a problem. BUT SA has the best defense in the league, and one could argue that you could run down a list of their guys with similar damning complaints about their physical aptitude. they have a couple of really good defenders in leonard and green, and then whatever timmy can give them. after that, lots of guys who, in theory shouldn't be part of a top notch d. that's coaching and character. and that's what the lakers need to look for. 1. they need to find a legit, two-way wing at either spot, preferably both. 2. they need to find a center who can move, shotblocking is a plus, but not necessary, imo. hedging and recovering on the pick and roll is enough for me. 3. they need a competent coach who focuses on that end in an intelligent fashion (read: grit is not a defensive philosophy). in short, i think even if you keep clarkson, randle, and russell, you could field a decent defensive team. you just can't throw them out there with hibbert, kobe, and byron.
I don't agree that this core can't become at least adequate defenders. Good defensive instincts are nice, but good defensive principals are better IMO. They are just too young to have good defensive principals already instilled in them, and being taught bad defensive habits by bad defensive coaching, makes them look like they have no aptitude, but if Russ, Randle, Clarkson, and Nance were under Pop, they would already look much better. You don't need to be a world class defender, you just need to have a solid understanding of angles and when and how to help and switch. The best defenders often don't have that straight out of college. They learn that by playing in the NBA for a while under good coaching.
The problem, realistically is we are a team that is used to reloading living in an era under this new CBA that puts a damper on that and encourages rebuilding. Unfortunately we are run by people who have no experience doing a full "rebuild" mixed with a fan base who has no experience watching a team really rebuilding. Like full, burn the house down and sweep away the ashes rebuild. Tensions are high, but as someone who generally deals with "small market" teams (being from Cincinnati with the Reds and Bengals) I'm used to being patient and appreciating minutae. Lakers fans haven't had to. It's understandable why people are getting tired of this.
And as far as the defense argument in the OP. There are awful habits being allowed to run free by the coaching staff mixed with the simple fact that we aren't a good team. Defense, like rebounding is 90% effort and 10% tactics/habits. We all would like to think every guy is like Kobe at the pro level but they aren't. It's alot like playing pickup hoops. If you are playing 5 on 5 to 21, at the beginning we are all bulldogs on D. But if you don't get the ball on offense, or your team falls behind by 10 points, it's tough to muster the fire to keep playing as hard, you let yourself slip and bad, lazy habits pour out.
This team has what it needs to be an average to good defense team player wise. Defense is mostly desire and determination. If you want to be a good defender you can be one. Obviously not many out there are motivated to go all out for Scott. Now to be a great defensive team it would be nice to have a Michael Cooper type, a rim protector and a coach would hold players accountable for botched rotations. Those guys that look so great in the SA system would look just as clueless under Scott. Lack of direction, lethargy, negativity, no accountability, unpredictability all erode defensive play. These just happen to be Scott's specialty areas.
I get what you're saying KB. Right now, it's not in our favor. But I agree with others that they can learn to be serviceable defenders. All about will, team concept, desire, effort, and angles. A coach can teach a lot of that and motivate the rest. So, IMO, what this team is really missing is a real coach.
You need a system. That is imperative. If you look at our most recent championship teams, the good defenders were Trevor Ariza, Ron Artest, Andrew Bynum, and at times Lamar Odom. Fisher couldn't keep people in front of him. Kobe didn't bother playing defense most of the time. Pau could not consistently play good defense, yet we were a good defensive team. Why? We had an actual system that could amplify strengths and minimize weaknesses. That means proper rotations, funneling guards towards the help, using length to contest inside shots, and closing out on 3 pointers. Our championship could do those things thanks to a system. We have no system. We don't rotate. We don't close out on 3's. We can't get around screens. We don't help the helper. We double off of elite shooters for some reason. We do everything wrong defensively. Everything.
I tend to agree with the "it's effort" side of things. I've seen too many guys with short arms and little defensive physical attributes (Dellavedova etc) in this league be annoying as all hell on the defensive end simply from effort. Effort comes from guys who either want to play for their coach or are vets on a champ squad and just know what it takes to get it done. In Byron's case, and I'm not just dog piling on him, it's overwhelmingly clear that few, especially the youth, want to play for him. I'd say Bass, Lou, Kobe are about the only guys somewhat on his side and they aren't exactly leading by example on D.
Yep same can be said about Foston , the 4th best defense in the league . Defense is not only about aptitute but about effort (mindset) , smarts , schemes , player's development too We really need a very good coaching staff to begin with ... we will be able to really start judging our player's defensive potential then
Watching the 2009 Finals Team. I agree with other posters who mention a 'scheme.' Our 2016 team does not have one. Of course, the 2016 team is not a fair talent or coaching comparison. Lets remember why its hard to 'scheme' with the 2016 lakers: Roy Hibbert - slow. Great block shot ability but not very smart about rotations and overly concerned (as he should be) of getting out of position. Equals: Zero help defense unless he is on the baseline. Russell - no court awareness on D yet with no help. Keeps getting hung up on high post picks and not making choice to rotate down when they are running him into the pick. That is because there is no one fast enough to jump out on his man with the ball and he is undersized on the roll man without help (Hibbert). Clarkson's arms and leaping ability on D are not enough to create this 'scheme' for helping and switching (someone like Ariza or Tony Allen on the wing would be a different story).. Kobe - playing the 3 and no defense at all. That will change next year and is why the second unit does better at times on 'defense' (if there ever was such a thing). The magic of the 2008-2010 lakers was large and versatile bigs (Odom, Gasol) mixed with fast wing player (Ariza). The magic of the 1999-2013 lakers was a dominant center with versatile wing players (Horry, Fox) and a then defensive point (Fisher). With various 'choke points' you can (as others have said) funnel the offense into a position where they are playing right into the strength of your defense. 2015-2016 Lakers - no ability to do this but in truth no real scheme. With Hibbert as slow as he is and his inability to jump out or switch out, you are limited with Randall and his short arms on the floor and the ability to run Russell off on a high screen pick - every time.
