Kobe Bryant Discussion: Mamba Out!

Kobe was the the undoubted face of the league from 2006-the end of the 2Peat. I'm not sure WTF Brent Barry was talking about.




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Crazy that an almost-retired Kobe was taking LeBron to school on practically every possession they were matched up.

I think Kobe probably only missed a couple times while Bron was guarding him.

 

LeBron's run is almost over. He's obviously not the best player in the league anymore and he had a much shorter run at that than Kobe did who was it for about a decade, but he may end up with even more mileage and we saw tonight there is a dramatic difference between the skillset which allowed Kobe to be spectacular up until the Achilles.

LeBron has never had a killer instinct and that's the difference to me. There's been so many times the dude has inexplicably shied away in big moments and just deferred even when he was the clear cut best player in the world. The ones that stick out to me is his 2010 collapse against the C Bags. Game 5 he was just awful. He only shot the ball like 13 times which is pathetic for an MVP player. In a do or die game Kobe would never do that. He might shoot like s***, but he's going down swinging. Then of course the 2011 Finals against Dallas. He allowed their zone defense to completely take him out of his game. He just stood around the perimeter and was about as passive as any superstar. Kobe had a horrible Finals too in 2004, but there's a difference between struggling against an all time great defense and just going through the motions seemingly and leaving your teammates out to dry.

To me if you pick LeBron over Kobe you're basically saying I care about numbers over winning. LeBron has as good a numbers as anyone, but he doesn't have that it factor. That ability to just step on your throat. When he realizes he can't win he's just gonna shut it down. Kobe and Jordan weren't like that. They would do everything in their power to will their team to victory. I believe it was Jordan who said a few years ago he'd take Kobe because of one reason and one reason only. 5>2 and I completely agree. No rings aren't an individual thing you obviously have to have a team around you that can support you, but LeBron has had that. He played with Dwayne Wade, in his prime was probably the third best player in the game behind Kobe and LeBron. Chris Bosh was terrific and undervalued in Miami's title runs. Even though I think Kyrie and Love are overrated they're still All Stars in this league. It's like how much help does one guy need? People talk about Kobe's supporting cast, but Shaq as dominant as he was got lazy and fat. Pau pretty much faded after the second title. Bynum went into the tank after being traded. Lamar obviously had a number of issues he never recovered from. Lamar was always considered an underachiever. Bynum couldn't stay healthy. Pau never even won a playoff game without Kobe. Shaq won one championship without Kobe and it took Wade getting gifted about 30 free throws a night to get it done. Point being Kobe elevated his teammates and made them play above and beyond. LeBron? Well it seems like every star he played with got worse.

 

I'll always cherish the memory of seeing Kobe vs LeBron in person for the last time ever.

 

I agree with you until you started downplaying Kobe's teammates. On the '08-'10 runs, we had the best big man rotations in the league with 3 top 15 big men on our team and 2 of the 3 best centers. We also had great role players, a deep bench and excellent coaching. Kobe had plenty of help. You don't have to downplay the talent around him to make the case for greatness. No one won a championship without significant help.

 

Odom was averaging a double double with 5 assists or so. Those guys don't grow on trees, and he was our 6th man.

At that time, you had Dwight, Duncan, KG, Dirk, Bosh as elite big men, and our own Pau and Bynum. You had Randolph, Amare, and Shaq was still good but declining quickly. Jermaine O'Neal was around but quickly declining. You had Boozer who's numbers were good, but Pau and Odom would both take his lunch money. We all know first hand how empty his numbers are. I think Odom could slide in the top 15, especially when you take into account that he would always step up his game in the playoffs.

 

Comparing Bynum and Odom is a tough one. I think overall, during our 3 finals run and 2 championships, Odom was more valuable, due to the fact that Bynum got hurt each season that we made it to the finals. So one finals run Bynum didn't play at all, and the 2 runs where we won championships, Bynum was signficantly hobbled. Talent wise, Bynum had elite center talent, but that only helped so much because he wasn't healthy. Imagine if he was. Things would be a lot different.

 

I said top 3 centers. Bynum was one of the 3 best centers in the league at the time. Bynum, Pau and Dwight. Those were the 3 best centers during that time. We had 2 of them.

Regardless though, the point I originally made was that Kobe had plenty of help in those championship runs, due to our talented big men. You can't argue against that.

 

UPDATED DESIGN:

 

How did I downplay his teammates? I didn't. I'm simply saying LeBron's supporting cast wasn't chopped liver like a lot of people are saying. Bynum was very good when he was healthy which unfortunately was rare, but I don't think he was ever dominant. Yes he was probably the second best center, but centers were a dying breed at that time and it's only gotten worse in that aspect since then. I loved how Lamar played for us, but he was very up and down throughout his career and he didn't have the mentality to be a superstar even though the talent was there. Pau was terrific as well, but he wasn't a superstar either. He was a supremely skilled big man who was a perfect #2 player, but a lot of people especially in the media made it seem like it was 1A and 1B with him and Kobe and that wasn't the case. Yes Kobe had a terrific supporting cast, but he also made them better. That's my point. Everyone always acts like he didn't make his teammates better and that's clearly not the case.