Presidential Election Aftermath: What Now / What Next?

We're all socialist to one degree or another.

Well that is if unless you are one of those people on the interwebs that subscribe to anarcho-capitalism.

 

No individual is socialist. Socialism is ownership by a collective group. Not an individual.

 

Right, but you can be an individual who supports the idea of collective ownership from one degree to another.

 

Collective ownership that is voluntary or forced by the state?

I've met very few who favor forced ownership over freedom of choice.

 

Huh?

I'm talking about the majority of people who enjoy social programs(Social Security, Medicare,etc.), who like the idea of public roads, the idea that the Police and Fire Department aren't privatized, public education. Those are collectively owned.

 

People care about results & the $$ to achieve those results.

I don't believe most people care if the fire department is private or public as long as they put out the fire and the cost is reasonable. If a public fire department does a lousy job and is costing a crapload of taxpayer money, they'll want another choice. Same thing with schools, police, or any other program.

 

So what about people who like the idea of choice, but if they don't get it, they don't necessarily care.

For example, I lived in Sweden for a year while I was in college. The majority of people there enjoy the fact the the government pays for your healthcare, education, retirement, transportation, etc. They are content with higher taxes to pay for these services

 

Everybody cares about choice, especially when the only choice they have is a rotten deal. Anybody who says they don't care about choice is either lying through their teeth or they rather not think about what they can't control.

 

Or they are already getting a good deal.

But I feel like this is digressing a bit from the point I was trying to make, which is that our mixed economy, has aspects of socialism. The idea that a candidate is running on that shouldn't really surprise anyone. Bernie is really only the first to admit it.

 

1) That too.

2) Which is why there isn't much difference between GOP and Dems. They both support big government one way or another.

 

Because I can never resist quoting the Simpsons

 

^Exactly. Look at what's happening to Greece. Spain is next on the list.

I probably posted this already, but USPS' big problem is the huge pension program congress voted for in 2006. It's been bleeding cash ever since.

LINK

 

I love how Greece and Spain are always cited by people, as a failure of socialism, but when Nordic countries like Denmark, Finland, Norway, and Sweden are brought up as success stories...crickets. Ironically, Greece's economy is in a ****storm precisely because of the austerity their creditors are asking for. They've been running a primary surplus. The other problem is that the idea of the Eurozone was good for political reasons, but in practice, the single currency of the Euro has been pretty bad for countries like Greece. When you try fitting countries with different economies, languages, cultures, and customs into the same round peg, you're going to have problems.

 

LINK

 

That article is presenting a straw man.

First, no one from the center-left is advocating 100% taxation or even near that rate. Personally, I would like to see the Bush tax cuts repealed or expired and we go back to the Clinton era rates.

Second, the point is that these countries are well-regulated capitalist societies. Not sure if any of you spent any amount of time outside the U.S., but if you go to these countries and ask regular people their understanding of "socialism" or "democratic socialism", it's completely different from the traditional definition of socialism. It's a distinction most Americans do not understand and, as usual, the Right has won the battle of framing the question. These countries have comprehensive central health insurance for everyone paid by everyone, fair collective bargaining, proper pensions, family and leave compensation, and most importantly a capitalist system that takes care of removing corrupt business practices, pays its workers decently, and decreases poverty.

Bernie Sanders would be considered a middle of the road, moderate politician in any other country, but here he wants to steal from the "Job Creators" and give away "free stuff".