A lot of players are competitors. A lot of players are champions. Will he get a max deal? Sure. Doesn't mean he deserves a max deal. This is an injury prone point guard, about to hit 30 years old, and still can't hit a jumper on a consistent clip. Does he do things in other areas well? Sure, he can pass the ball and play defense,rebound, hustle, but that's not what you pay a max player to do. That's role player stuff. You don't pay a role player max money.
Ok now I'm laughing that you're comparing Rondo to a role player. I mean no he can't single handeldly carry a team, but who can right now? If he can't avoid significant injury this season I wouldn't risk it. Barring that, if he performs as he always has, I'm going to do everything in my power to persuade the FO to give him the MAX.
C'mon the hate in here is over the top. The guy is a triple double machine, not a role player. If you don't want to give him 20 million dollars, that's one thing. Don't insult the guy and try to compare him something less than what he is. He's a stellar Point Guard, one of the best in the game.
Sure, explain to me why he's deserving of max other than being a "competitor" and "champion" instead of "laughing" about it.
Derek Fisher is a competitor and a champion. Should we give him the max? Triple double machine is also (imo) a very arbitrary thing to bring up in the grand scheme of things. It's nice to look at, but what I care about is how you impact the game on the court and how you impact the team off the court. Rondo is a bad locker room presence off the court. On the court, he doesn't bring enough to warrant a max anyway. He can pass the ball well. I'll give him that, but people keep bring up rebounding as if it's something so special. You want the bigs to rebound it and outlet the ball to the PGs to get a head start. You also want your PGs to run back on defense, not wait for offensive rebounds and open up fastbreak opportunities for opponents.
To be fair I haven't watched every game the C Bags play, but I find it difficult to imagine he's costing them games by trying to pad his rebounding stats and not playing defense. I've never once heard that about him. I don't really understand how something so difficult can be arbitrary, but the fact that he can't shoot jump shots is so bad. Do you guys realize he still ends up shooting near 50% from the field almost every year? So despite not hitting shots from outside, he gets into the lane and creates scoring opportunities for himself and others at a pretty damn high rate. He's been elected to four All-Defensive teams (missed last season's due to injury). This role player comparison is nonsense. He's light years ahead of Derek Fisher and I love Derek Fisher. Really? C'mon guys. You don't want to give him the max, that's one thing but don't pretend he's something that he isn't. He's still a great player.
He's got a career 47.5 FG% and that would be even higher if it weren't for a rough start this season. He's consistently been between 47-51% from the field since his rookie season. Even if he can't hit a jump shot consistently, he evidently scores well enough. It hasn't been a problem so far in his career. He still gets to the rim effectively and passes effectively. I understand wanting a more well rounded PG, but find me a PG that's as good a defender and passer, shoots that well from the field and is available/likely obtainable in the next 2-3 years.
He's not a role player. Lol. I just used Derek Fisher as an example to demonstrate why it's ridiculous to use "competitor" and "champion" as reasons for giving someone a max contract. Anyway, he shoots 47.5 FG% for his career, but that's because he doesn't shoot 3s or jumpers. He actually doesn't shoot much unless it's a layup/fastbreak. It's part of the reason why (smart) C Bags fans were so frustrated with having him. He can't score the ball and doesn't attempt open shots (open for your average NBA player anyway). While you may think he's effective because of his 47.5 FG%, his TS% is an abysmal 51 TS%. In other words, he's actually inefficient when it comes to scoring for many reasons: 1. He doesn't draw fouls 2. When he does draw fouls, he can't make free throws 3. He's sometimes afraid to shoot because he doesn't want to shoot free throws 4. He can't hit 3pters.
I didn't necessarily call him a role player, I just noted he does things that are usually done by role players. Of course he's a great player. But in the context of being a max or near-max point guard, I don't think he's worth it. Personally, I'm not in the market for a PG. I never found having a great point guard necessary to a team that goes all the way. Time and time again it seems we get punished by one of these dazzling PG's, yet none of them seem to get over the championship hump unless they're paired with a big man (Parker-Duncan). It seems that because we're getting trumped by these PG's, we're trying to follow that trend. Sure, the NBA has gone towards a PG trend, but it still hasn't proved the right formula to postseason success. In terms of finding a piece for this team, I mentioned Marc Gasol and you pointed out that he's on his way to 30. Rajon is just a year behind, and has been fairly injury prone the last few years. I mention his inability to shoot despite his high FG% because that's what gets him hurt. If his game consists of getting himself in the paint and banging with the big bodies inside, he's going to get hurt. Do you not see a trend with these type of guards who like to crash in to the lane? Rose? Westbrook? Davis? I think he was a gamer back when he was with the Big 3 in Boston, but I don't think he'll get back to that youthful level of play we saw from 2008-2010. Especially not for the MAX.
I've made my opinion known already: give him the max because he's probably the best player at a position we need help in. I'm not trying to change either of your minds because clearly you've made up yours already too. All I'm saying is the comparisons to a role player are fairly insulting to the man. Sure he can't shoot jump shots, but there's plenty of guys who can't shoot but have had successful careers. Magic was an awful shooter almost his entire career. Shawn Marion and Matt Barnes have built successful careers as journeymen despite their inability to shoot a basketball. There's others, but I'm too lazy to think of them. Personally, I think his ability to penetrate and to find players off of cuts and movement outweigh his inability to shoot. The C Bags took us to seven games with this perceived problem. It worked out fine for them. I think it could work out fine for us too. The age thing is a concern sure, but he doesn't necessarily play the most athletic game ever so I'm not overly concerned with his game deteriorating. Yes I know Marc doesn't play athletically either, but he's also had injury problems. Maybe neither of them are exactly perfect for a rebuild. I just think we can fill in a competent big (see Ed Davis) easier than we can fill in a competent PG (see Jeremy Lin). We need a person who is strong enough to keep the ball out of Kobe's hands and put him in position to be successful. Lin should be able to do that, but through five games he's not come close to fully grasping it. All this being said... we need the help wherever we can get it. If we have a shot at Rondo or Gasol or anybody I hope we take it. I don't care how much we have to pay, we just need talent.
Yeah never mind the max, shoot im actually going to pass at even 15 mill. Once again, hes the player you get if you have all the right pieces and cheap young talent on rookie contracts with already a super star or two on the roster. By the way, like it or not, his numbers are also inflated because lets not get it twisted; He plays in the East. Dont even act like that doesnt play a role.
Rondo sounded a lot better when there was a certain max PF with a very good 3 point shot that we could also go after.. Now that Love is off the market I think Dragic becomes a better option. Or maybe even someone younger than Dragic with our recent injury history.
Rondo and we will still have cap room left to grab another piece and we might get a top 5 pick? Umm, yeah. Sign me up. Health is the only concern here. His shooting issues are bring overblown a bit. He is not a pure shooter by any stretch, but he can score. Draft another young big man and we are right back in the playoff hunt.
On a team like Golden State with great outside shooters Rondo could still beast. On this team with no shooters except Kobe it would be ugly.
No to Rondo...UNLESS its not max,we dont get Mudiay AND Dragic doesnt offer better value.The reason why he worked so well on the C Bags big 3 teams is because he was on a rookie contract!
In his career, Rondo's DRtg was worse than his team's DRtg only once. In 11/12, he was at 99, while the team was 98.2. He's not a fake defender. In 508 career games he has handed out 4287 assists. His PER has been above 15 every year of his career since his second year. This year he's up at about his career average of 17. As for his outside shooting, Rondo has taken 45% of his career shots within 3 feet of the basket. And nearly 2/3 have been within 10 feet. That's what he does for a team - he creates space by breaking down defenses. It's not like there's only one way a PG can be successful. He's a four-time all-star. He's a two-time second team all-d. He's a two-time first team all-d. He's a one-time all-nba 3rd team. He's a one-time champion. I'd welcome him.
