Presidential Election Aftermath: What Now / What Next?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion and Philosophy -(FORUM CLOSED)-' started by davriver209, Aug 11, 2015.

  1. John3:16

    John3:16 Moderator Staff Member

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    Obama didn't fix it, but I'm supposed to believe the next Democrat will?

    Why should I believe that?
     
  2. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

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    We can't force people to be responsible, but I think that's a far cry from what I'm talking about. it should be pretty easy to find the average cost for a low end residence, food, utilities for a person in a given state. If a person has a job and the job doesn't pay enough to be X amount over that threshold, they shouldn't pay taxes IMO.

    Getting back to poor people having nice things and no job, I don't understand the thought process from people thinking these people are living the good life. They are not. I grew up in those areas, and been poor as you were John. Those are the same people that constantly struggle to pay bills, evicted, poor education, etc, but they decided to buy a 70" TV when they got their tax return. I say, so what. They made a poor decision often times as a result of lots of other factors including a generational poverty and low education cycle. They won the geographical lottery of being born in a country where the poor aren't as poor as some other countries. They don't need to be punished for it. They punish themselves by having a BlueRay, but their power gets shut off, or the new Jordans, but 8 kids to feed. Their life is already pretty crappy IMO.

    I understand you and I don't want to support them, but the tax rates and poor family threshold I'm talking about supports those that are trying to work while not punishing those who aren't.

    That's mostly due to two things IMO. One, wealth in this country is ridiculously imbalanced, so the richest people in this country have all the wealth, but the richest of the rich, don't contribute what they should. That is not just due to them being smarter, they benefit through lobbying government for things that benefit them directly, tax loopholes, etc.

    I agree the government wastes way too much money. This gets fixed by reorganizing government without money being involved IMO. The only way money isn't involved is by making corporate campaign donations and lobbying illegal.

    But for the rich, the people that actually have most of the money, there's no incentive for them to spend it in the US, even if they live here. They can fly to Cuba, buy a boat, and none of those thousands-millions of dollars they made in the US ever go back into the US economy.
     
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  3. John3:16

    John3:16 Moderator Staff Member

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    Good points Barns. I don't necessarily disagree. I guess I'm just fed up with politicians in general. I think that's why I'm leaning toward the outsiders. Fiorina, Carson, and even Rubio (who is so fed up he won't run for Senate again). I can't go with Trump, but I love his anti-establishment and anti-PC attitude.
     
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  4. revgen

    revgen - Lakers 6th Man -

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    I'd hardly call Rubio an "outsider". He's a typical establishment Republican.
     
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  5. lakerfan2

    lakerfan2 - Lakers All Star -

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    I don't think Fiorina is experienced enough in the political field to really throw her weight around, let alone, her lack of strength in many other topics that have been throw at her. She handles the questions well, as should a politician, but her answers seem very passive, and seem to never address the topic, but rather, relate to it.

    Carson is just going off the deep end trying to follow in the curtails of Donald. Let alone, he's a "doctor" that is against vaccinations? That alone has me dumbfounded.

    Rubio is the dark horse for the GOP for me, though I don't know how he's going to win over the Trump vote unless he comes up firing.

    I'm not in love with the candidates on either side of the parties, mainly because now the parties are now so far apart in their ideals, that it's pretty much impossible for anyone to fall in the middle.

    Sanders has been the closest for me. I know the thought of a "socialist" turns so many off, but it's also something that's veers away from both parties extremist viewpoints, is FAR from the socialism of those countries ruled by a dictatorship, and is focused on the regulation of the GOVERNMENT, for the PEOPLE, to help reestablish the dying middle class and balance the wealth in America. So far, none of the candidates have even touched on the topic of a dwindling middle class and increase of the population into poverty.

    What scares me most are not the candidate themselves, but the voters who blindly follow candidates based on what they say, without any regard for the details of how they plan to achieve it, and are completely closed-minded to the voice of others. Obama supporters fell into his charming speaking, and I feel Trump is doing the same thing. They talk, people listen. The one thing in common is that no one knows what the hell they are supporting.
     
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  6. Azndude2190

    Azndude2190 - Lakers 6th Man -

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    No, you shouldn't. Just giving you the answer you wanted on the "fair share" point.

    Though the likelihood of reversing the Bush tax cuts is less than me winning the lottery, no matter who's in office. So I digress.
     
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  7. John3:16

    John3:16 Moderator Staff Member

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    Lakerfan2 -- I don't think Carson is against immunizations. It was brought up in the last debate, based on comments from Trump. Carson was asked if Trump was wrong and he said he agreed, they should be given in smaller doses over a longer period of time. If he's said anything else on the subject, I haven't heard it.
     
  8. lakerfan2

    lakerfan2 - Lakers All Star -

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    @John Yes, I did catch that during the last debate, though his stance still leans towards Vaccinations as a cause for autism. Which, to my knowledge, has not been scientifically linked, which doesn't really support his claims of high/lower dosage affecting children. He's caught between two sides of being a doctor, and fully knowing the benefits of vaccinations, and being GOP candidate and needing to win votes from Trump.
     
  9. acetabulum7

    acetabulum7 - Rookie -

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    I think John 3:16 brought up a great point about responsibility. No, obviously we can't force people to be responsible, but I do think a large part of the problem in America really starts at the home and the environment people grow up in.

    I hear lots of talk about bandaging our problems, but no real talk about actually providing long-term solutions. You can lower taxes for the poor and increase taxes for the rich, but the income gap is still only gonna get wider, so I don't think that's a real long-term solution.

    Making college free sounds nice, but I'd rather see that money go towards programs to help kids in broken homes who need it most. Whether it's an after-school academic program, sports, music, etc. (things kids can relate to and retreat to instead of drugs and violence), I'd like to see places where people in the community can show that someone cares for them and wants a better future for them.

    Let me know if I am wrong anywhere. I am no politician at all; just thought I'd share one way to reduce poverty in this country.
     
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  10. John3:16

    John3:16 Moderator Staff Member

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    Those opposing vaccinations are predominately on the Left. Just sayin.... Remember that time you got Polio? Me either. Vaccinate your kids!

    In other news:

    [​IMG]

    People who support her and Jeb just don't make sense to me. I have a feeling those will be our two nominees. But keep voting. Your vote counts!!! LOL
     
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  11. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    Ugh opposing vaccinations... Seriously? The science behind "vaccinations = autism" is at BEST shaky and at worst the stretchiest stretch since stretch pants. Modern science doesn't have a legitimate link between the two it's more like "yeah there might be some correlation there". It's not a lot different from "well I was walking down the street when it started raining so I guess me walking down the street makes it rain."
     
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  12. lakerfan2

    lakerfan2 - Lakers All Star -

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    Responsibility is taught primarily through education and discipline. Of course, there will be the ones that fall through the cracks because not everyone is created equal.

    And honestly, the biggest culprits of our society are the parents. Parents who fail to teach their kids about responsibility, keep tabs on kids and their everyday struggles, and if parents are unable to do so, they fail to seek the help doing it. These are the things that lead to generational poverty and paths towards drugs and violence and troubles of that nature.

    In relation to that, reducing the number of prisoners in our system. It's absurd that we have the most prisoners of any country in the world. Instead of punishing some of these criminals (primarily the non-violent ones) and flooding money into those type of prisoner programs, those tax dollars needs to be more programs on self help to progress our future. Again, something Mr. Sanders strongly fights for.
     
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  13. revgen

    revgen - Lakers 6th Man -

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    “Nevertheless, for many of those who deal primarily in ideas, socialism remains an attractive idea -- in fact, seductive. Its every failure is explained away as due to the inadequacies of particular leaders. ”
    Thomas Sowell
     
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  14. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

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  15. John3:16

    John3:16 Moderator Staff Member

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    That's my point. The media is fixated on propping up Hillary and Jeb. I'm not a fan of Sanders, but at least I know where he stands and can guess with 99% assurance how he'll vote in a month. I have no idea on Hillary. As for Jeb, he's Trumps whipping boy. But to hear the media tell is, it's Hillary and Jeb.

    We, the voters, have no say.
     
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  16. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    The media controls what people hear in the information age. They have all the power to be biased, sway opinions, and move the country's mentality. Unless you watch the debates live, you're getting a biased report from somewhere. Unfortunately the majority of people won't watch the debate live because it's not a car chase or explosion or teenage romance. Most of those people fortunately don't vote, but the ones that do from that group generally sway the vote these days. Hello the "Obama is cool" crowd.
     
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  17. lakerfan2

    lakerfan2 - Lakers All Star -

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    Came across something that showed the CNN had Hillary winning the debate, but ALL their polls showed Bernie winning by a landslide. What did they do? Removed the polls from their site. CNN HAPPENS to be owned by Time Warner Cable, who HAPPENS to be one of Hillary's top campaign contributors. They've donated more than Bernie's top 25 donator COMBINED.

    It's things like this that further confirm the issues of Bernie and the relationship between big business and our government. They're trying to buy their way to policies in their favor. Perhaps TWC is trying to buy their way back into that Comcast deal to let it go through. Or say an AT&T would contribute to someone for net neutrality.
     
  18. Azndude2190

    Azndude2190 - Lakers 6th Man -

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    The thing with Bernie is that his support for the concept of democratic socialism falls outside the Overton Window of politically acceptable ideas.

    Funny thing is, socialism in general is practiced to one degree or another in every single country on earth. You'd think the U.S. was pioneering some unbelievable concept that has neither been attempted or done before to hear some people tell it.

    "ZOMG FREE TUITION? What is this sorcery??? All SOCIALIST LIES!"

    Yea nothing is free, that's why you pay for it by 1) increasing taxes and/or 2) reallocating money from other items in the federal budget. Total cost of tuition in the U.S. is $70 billion. In fiscal year 2013, foreign aid was $40 billion. That already covers more than 1/2. You let the Bush tax cuts expire, that'll cover the rest and much more. End the war on drugs, that should be more money. End are policing of the world (wars, oversea military bases, weapons programs like the F-35) and that would cover the cost several times over.
     
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  19. John3:16

    John3:16 Moderator Staff Member

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    ^^^ you lost me at "increasing taxes."

    WE PAY ENOUGH ALREADY!!!!
     
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  20. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

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