Question for those well versed with the legal system

Discussion in 'Open Discussion' started by JSM, Aug 17, 2015.

  1. JSM

    JSM - Lakers Legend -

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    Ok...I'll try to summarize this ordeal without it resulting in a dozen paragraphs.

    -Saturday evening I was at a local sports bar. My debit card was lifted, I didn't realize it until I got home that night.
    -immediately log on my banking app and see several small charges made tallying around $75.
    -Called the establishment, they were great about it. Extremely helpful. Grabbed the card the next time he tried to use it at the bar. And then they proceeded to alert the authorities. He's in there all the time, so the manager gave me his name.
    -police called me, had me return there to give a statement and retrieve my card.
    -they had him on 4 charges -- public drunkenness, willful obstruction of law enforcement officer, furnishing/purchasing/possession of alcoholic beverages by persons below the legal age, and a felony charge of financial transaction card theft.
    -he had a warrant out for 2 priors, a theft situation at best buy and another charge of underage drinking. He's 20 years old.
    -the bail amount was set at $7500
    -his court date was this morning
    -they updated the info in the system this afternoon -- all 4 charges were dropped and the bail amount was reduced to $3000

    How the hell does that happen? How does someone get off Scott free like that? Plea agreement? Entering into a rehab/alcohol abuse facility?

    I will add that I found out via the bar that he has very well to do parents.

    Meanwhile I've spent the past two days with my bank trying to get this s*** all sorted out.
     
  2. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

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    First off, that sucks.

    Second off, I'm not surprised, but I don't have much to offer that would be of help. Something similar happened with a hit-and-run case I was peripherally associated with about two years ago.
     
  3. John3:16

    John3:16 Moderator Staff Member

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    That's pretty common, from what I understand. They get charged with the max and then a plea agreement is made and punishment is somewhere in the middle. First time offender gets the least punishment and multiple time offenders get the most. Having a great lawyer is worth it's weight in gold.
     
  4. bonk

    bonk - Rookie -

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    What's the question? How does this happen?

    The legal system in this country is overloaded. If they can get a plea deal in one session they will take it every time. If the perp has a lawyer he will have a better shot at getting a lesser penalty. Nothing new here. The higher up the food chain you are the less laws affect you. Just read the paper.

    The amount he stole from you is minor and while you were on the phone with the Bar there were probably 500 or more similar incidents going on in the Greater LA area.

    I'm not an expert in the criminal law but I do know statistics and the rise in just about all types of crime is huge since the 2007 economy collapse. Violent crimes and theft are spiking everywhere. The system has to prioritize the crimes. On top of that there is political pressure that makes finding and keeping certain groups much harder than it should be.

    My guess is that we're early in a cycle of elevating crime. Crime will keep rising for several years. Economics and crime are tied at the hip and we're in a significant hole right now in terms of youth opportunity in this country. The largest demographic inside the rising crime numbers are 15 to 25 year olds.

    Good to hear they caught him and you didn't get stuck with the bill. That is really unusual.
     
  5. John3:16

    John3:16 Moderator Staff Member

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    I was in a sports bar once and someone at the next table skipped out on the bill of over $200. The waitress had to pay that, plus she worked for 3 hours serving that large table for free. She cried.

    The next week, they were in there again. She asked us if it was the same guys. Yup. They called the cops.

    Turns out, wrong guys. They pulled up their bank statements showing they were there the week prior and had indeed paid their bill. So, yeah, that was awkward. Doubt they ever caught the guys who really skipped out.
     
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  6. JSM

    JSM - Lakers Legend -

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    I suppose. The amount is rather trivial. Could've been a lot worse in that regard. He was smart to make small purchases to avoid raising any eye brows with the staff. The hassle of having to deal with the bank for hours a day is the most inconvenient part of the ordeal.

    I was just surprised at the limited outcome. Henry county is typically one of the harshest counties in the state on alcohol related matters. The judge who hears a large majority of the cases had a son who died in a car crash involving a drunk driver. So he likes to make examples out of young men who find themselves in front of him. I'm not sure if he was presiding over today's case, but the minimal (assumed) slap in the wrist that he received just caught me by surprise and disappointed in what a decent attorney can accomplish in our legal system.
     
  7. bonk

    bonk - Rookie -

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    Numbers wise it's not that unusual for this type of outcome. The legal system is a mess just about everywhere right now. We've got the FBI serving warrants that no one can talk about and exempts you from an attorney and we've got some very dangerous people who are not citizens getting let go because of local ordinances overriding federal law.... not really our finest hour as a country of laws.

    I've had my credit card nailed 3 times in the last 3 years. It seems that every one of the highly publicized cyber thefts of numbers mine is included. The First Data one a few years ago I got a call from Citi asking me if I had just bought $3,600 worth of Car Audio Equipment to be delivered to an address in Florida. 1 last year left me on the phone for hours telling US Bank that I wasn't buying gas and food in Ontario Canada. That's a mess too. I have no idea what happened to the people who did this.

    When I was younger I was in a pretty bad part of Atlanta. The kids there used to get a few chances with Law Enforcement and the courts too. Some used it some didn't.
     
  8. Kingsama

    Kingsama - Rookie -

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    A few things to think about.

    1. Is the local government going to spend the money investigating and prosecuting over what is essentially $75 dollars in damages. If you didn't get the card back it might have been different. I'll touch on this later.
    2. Crimes are generally scaled on amount stolen/cost of dmg caused/harm caused/etc. In Texas theft under $50 is a Mis. C, $50-$500 Mis. B, $500-$1500 Mis. A, and over that various degrees of felonies. A class B misdemeanor is not a priority for the DA or the local PD.
    3. The way many laws read require to the state to prove intent and while the PD only have to meet the criteria for probable cause, which is significantly lower than a reasonable doubt, the court has to meet beyond reasonable doubt. Him having and using the card easily meets PCand the local law enforcement are pretty much always going to go with the biggest charge possible. But if the felony statute contains some language of intent or other criteria the state may not be able or willing to pursue that charge. For example, lets assume the felony charge has some language of intent, or knowledge. He says "I was drunk and thought it was mine" state now has to prove he was not drunk enough to make that mistake. For $75 they aren't going to play that game.
    4. Just because the charges were dropped doesn't mean they are gone. Chances are they offered him a deal, that says those charges will be dropped if he meets certain criteria, including probation. In America probation is very hard to complete and when someone fails to complete it all the dropped charges come back along with their associated fines/time in jail. I would bet he plead down, which got him out earlier but came with probation. I will also bet if he is 20, had warrants and is out stealing that probation will get him. I see this all the time in the adult facility next to the juvenile facility next to mine. It isn't uncommon for folks to pick up a felony, plea down and get something like 10 years on papers. They rarely can complete that 10 year period and once your probation is violated its off to the pen...
     
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  9. LTLakerFan

    LTLakerFan - Lakers Legend -

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    I've got this guy's cell phone # ...... PM me

    [​IMG]
     

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