Jarred Vanderbilt Discussion: The Vandalorian

I like JJ and supported his hiring. I am a little concerned with his decision making and even more so, his lack of vision. A coach has to be able to look into the future and he doesn't seem to have that yet.

 

why is a 6'9" 26 year old finishing at the rim about how i did as a 5'10" 33 year old?

 

I’m not as down on him as most, but it doesn’t matter what I think.
JJ doesn’t like him at all so it wouldn’t even matter if he’s developed into Hakeem down low. He won’t see any burn unless things go really poorly in the injury department.

 

Yeah nothing about the movement, handles, or finishing looks like an NBA players. I’m not trying to hate on Vando, but that clip was just weird.

 

I hope he's moving at 1/3 speed cause that was rough.

 

…. maybe needs a better trainer?

 

Eat real meat Vegando

 

You're being a bit harsh, training has different intensity and complexity levels. We don't know which stage was the video taken.
He'll never be a good offensive player, there's a touch and feeling that is untrainable, imo. But if he can get a little bit better gradually, it will help his career.

One thing going well for him is having Kessler. He played better with AD because it fits him better to have a rim protector instead of a heavy switching scheme that quickly takes him out of on-ball defense and he needs to rely on more collective defense that he's worse at.

I also think people forget so quickly. Everyone was happy with this contract when it was signed, I think he is the only 4 year contract we signed in the last 5 years or so. Can't remember the previous one until this summer, bar Bronny lol
And that was because he was really good for us when he got here. He had Smart-level impact on defense, causing havoc instantly and completely changing games with his defense. Between that and being this "can't play in the NBA version" there's a ton of levels he can stabilize on.

JJ also needs to think strategically regarding team construction. He is one of the few assets (due to his contract number) that we can use this or next year to get a clear upgrade in our roster and find a top7 role player in our championship build. So if we can't trade him in the summer, it's on JJ to find a way to rebuild his value, so that near the deadline or next summer he's not seen as a pure salary dump but more as a guy some team can take a flier as a low-risk high-reward bet.

There's a big difference between being a contract any team just wants to let expiring vs "he has some potential to make our team so let's see what he has and decide later". You still send seconds or swaps to get rid of him but the other team is more willing to do it and you can get a better player in the process

 

Vando is not a good shooter but that doesn't mean he can't play enough of a role on offense to stay on the floor to help us with his defense. Slasher, on and off ball screens, back doors, offensive rebounds. Work him in his own version or the Rodman role. Even if just to build his trade value but in imo there a lot more there than we are using. Another JJ failing if he can't find a way to use the talents Vando has. This along with his poor youth development is a bad look.

 

Vando is going to be out of the league after this contract if something doesn’t change.

 

I don't buy that all. He's great defensively, motor and rebounding. That's 3 skills important in today's NBA. He's a stable locker presence too which is relevant. Also still young.
His offensive flaws are too big, true, but I can't see why he wouldn't fit as 3rd string bench option at the vet min in a few teams.

 

I think the memory of Vando’s defense when he first arrived is overshadowing the current state. He still has a motor but he just is not the same guy. Whether it’s injuries or adding a little bulk slowed him down, he’s not a lockdown defender.

And even if those are meant to be lower intensity offensive drills, for a player who gets blocked at the rim at an incredibly high rate, practicing reverse layups that you’re releasing almost from your hip is not sound.

I’ve seen guys take low intensity rips to refine footwork, form, etc. This video looked clunky and attempts that will get blocked every time.

 

All I'm saying is that it is the coaches job to get the most out of his talent instead of tearing it down if for no reason than to make them more tradeable. Highlight the good, hide the bad. Miami players seem to sometimes look bad when they leave bc ES took advantage of their strengths while they were there. Vando and Knecht may never fit what JJ wants but it would seem beneficial to make them look as good as possible. Along with poor development of younger players some real concerns are showing up in our coaching. Still support JJ, hopefully this season shows improvement.

 

I think JJ is really a sicko for winning. He hates losing and he basically thinks everything short term and "how can I win this next game?".
It helped getting +50 wins in consecutive seasons, while having a major trade 2 years ago and a ton of injuries last year. It also got reflected in winning that Houston series, because this mindset was already part of the culture and everyone really believed we could win it.

The price to pay is player development. I think he wants to develop guys and he already trusted Jake, Knecht and Thiero in different contexts. But his thinking is "you may be young, I don't care, but you gotta give me this and impact winning today. If you do I play you, if not, you're out".
While in player development there's a degree of accepting some mistakes and even tailor your schemes and approach to ease out their integration, he doesn't want to find that balance and the only thing that matters to him is the player executing what he wants. What happens is many times the young guys are not ready for that or misfits like Knecht or Vando just get written out.

I do give it to him that he gives an opportunity to guys (he also did with Koloko, Nick Smith or Bronny for example. Jemison too?) and rewards them when they meet his expectations (Bronny or Hayes longer usage last year), but he's really adamant that you must execute.
It's not a completely wrong approach but it does transform it in a make or break for any guy, very binary. It's a good winning standard though and quite objective and clear for the player to understand.

I'm curious to see how this translates to Carr and Thiero throughout this season.

 

this is is basically what i meant by my comment. the footage was just puzzling. like, the kessler posts are happening at near game speed in many cases, doing things you'd expect he might do. if vando ever face-up attacks from the wing, you've already lost. if does manage to evade an actual nba defender in this fashion, those layups are in the cheap seats.

do agree here, and i think vando's fit in the pre-luka squad was better, as we could/should have leaned into a defense-first mindset with him being with the starters as the "shame you into playing hard" guy that smart was for us last year.

and i was a big vando fan when he got here and was happy with the contract. it was a mistake, in retrospect. part of that was unforeseeable (the injury that basically negated the first year), and part of that was either decline (as wallangong said) or bad fit. whatever it is, i don't think there's a clear role for him here anymore, and i share svtzr's thought that it's hard to come up with a place that will have one.

and for me, it's not about the three point shot. it's that AND the complete inability to finish. you can't have those two deficiencies on offense simultaneously. not even luka can make that work.

 

Good stuff. I'm all in with him on execution and not being there to see what happens in practices I support JJ. You are spot on IMO about Carr and Thiero, how they are used and progress will either ease or verify concerns.

 

How can a guy be that strong looking and such a weak sauce at the rim? Inexplicable.

I do wish we had a role for him where he could earn his keep or have provided some type of value for his contract. But absent that, we have guys in the wing ready to play his role unless he's a backup PF that focuses on defense. Maybe there is still room for that.

 

he'll be able to eat minutes when guys are hurt, but as the team stands now, i'd say the 5th starter is between laravia, thybulle, and williams (that's my dark horse to win the job in camp).

 

I agree with this, BUT JJ needs to realize soon that without significant player development, this team has no real way to improve drastically, for many years because of just going “all in” this summer. Currently, we have three and a half starting caliber players that we need to build around. I’m not seeing a MLE guy coming next year and magically turning us into a real contender so our team MUST turn Carr and Thiero into real rotation pieces. Kaluma may get there as well, but I think he’s at least another year away.