Kobe Bryant Discussion: Mamba Out!

It's not hard to find people via their style and tags, someone should go out and break their hands. Some things should be sacred.

 

He clearly likes LA so much, I don’t think we even have to offer him the max

— Jeanie and Rob (Probably)

 

Breaking them is too soft a punishment. They need to be chopped off completely for this disgraceful act.

 

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/18tjZqjWjp/

 

this is why civilization is collapsing.

 

There's nothing quite like a good conspiracy theory.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/64...ource=athletic_targeted_email&userId=14254432

 

A few problems I have with this. Why not say this when Kobe was alive? Easy to say it now.

Second I’ve never believed T-Mac was as good as Kobe. Talent wise sure, but he never was as mentally tough as Kobe nor as competitive. Not the same work ethic.

For the people saying McGrady didn’t have his opportunity well injuries are part of the game and Kobe always kept himself in incredible shape same as Bron. Can you say the same for T-Mac? What about in 2005 and 2007? That Rockets team was healthy and they lost in the first round with a healthy T-Mac and Yao if memory serves correctly.

 

So you don't think T-Mac would have won a single championship if paired with Shaq on the Lakers? Because that's all he's saying. He didn't say he would have won the same 5, just at least 1.

Imo, T-Mac w Shaq Lakers would have won at least 2, with a good chance at 3 or 4, and Shaq stays with the Lakers at least a few years longer. Lakers probably still would have won the '01 & '02 championships, and very well may have won in '03 and/or '04. Kobe was terrible in some of those series, particularly the '04 Finals against Detroit. T-Mac probably wasn't ready to win in '00 yet, but that's only because he was a year younger than Kobe and came into the league a year later. Since this is all a hypothetical anyway, if you make him the same age as Kobe, there is a solid chance Lakers have the same '00 championship outcome. However, T-Mac got injured and declined earlier than Kobe, and he probably doesn't win the Pau chips. If he had stayed healthy, then some chance, but less than Kobe. Factoring all that together, I would guess that T-Mac gets 3-4 chips w Shaq if he had replaced Kobe on the Lakers.


C/p'ing the original quote, which should not be controversial imo:

 

would he have won with shaq? maybe? probably?

he wouldn't have won with gasol 6 years later, though.

 

T-Mac had his chances to win as I mentioned there was two years with a healthy Yao, who was a dominant player in his prime in 2005 and 2007. They lost in the first round in 7 games. So no I don’t believe they win three championships in a row. People forget Kobe while not the best player in those championship runs was the Lakers closer during those title runs. He dominant in particular during the Western Conference playoffs. Are we supposed to assume a guy like T-Mac who consistently flamed out in the first round is supposed to close out teams and be the bonafide closer that Kobe was during those title runs with Shaq? Not buying it. They may have won one or two, but I don’t see him all three and I don’t think he’s winning back to back with Pau.

 

ooh, you're making some assumptions here. like that shaq wouldn't have been equally jealous of tmac.

also, detroit would have smothered tmac the same way because they were suddenly allowed to play illegal defense (this was still the rule back then, and they just ignored it and the refs ignored that disregard for the rules).

also agree with the above post--what if kobe had prime and healthy yao ming? guessing he's not ousted in the first round.

 

These are good Cliff Notes to my post, and I think your summary is pretty unarguable. And that's all T-Mac was really saying - that he would win at least 1 with Shaq.

 

Are you comparing Yao Ming to Shaq? In 2005 & 2007, Yao Ming went 18.3 & 8.4 on 55.2%, and 25.0 & 9.4 on 51.6%. In 2000-2002, Shaq went 29.7 & 13.6 on 57.4%, 28.7 & 12.7 on 57.2%, and 27.2 & 10.7 on 57.9%. Postseason stats tell a similar story. It's not close. So, no, T-Mac did not have the same chances as Kobe had. If you look at T-Mac and Kobe's seasons, they were close enough that I think it's extremely likely that T-Mac would have won at least a couple chips with Shaq. But even that is a higher bar than the one being discussed. All T-Mac said is that he would have won at least one chip w Shaq. Do you disagree? You don't think he would have one a single one w Shaq and the Lakers?

 

Tmac with Shaq in 2000 would have been bounced by the Blazers. and that would have set a course of bad losses from there.

 

Lakers were so dominant in 2001 that anyone remotely close to Kobe could have replaced him and Lakers still won. They went 15-1 with over half the games being blowouts. T-Mac and Kobe were considered close then. T-Mac 6th in MVP voting that year, Kobe 9th. Both 2nd team all-NBA.

2001 playoffs:
Kobe: 29.4 pts, 7.3 rebs, 6.1 asts, 1.6 stls, 0.8 blks, 0.7 3's, 46.9% FG, 32.4% 3PFG, 48.5% 2PFG, 82.1% FT, 48.5% eFG
T-Mac: 33.8 pts, 6.5 rebs, 8.3 asts, 1.8 stls, 1.3 blks, 0.5 3's, 41.5% FG, 20.0% 3PFG, 43.4% 2PFG, 81.6% FT, 42.3% eFG

2001 regular season:
Kobe: 28.5 pts, 5.9 rebs, 5.0 asts, 1.7 stls, 0.6 blks, 0.9 3's, 46.4% FG, 30.5% 3PFG, 48.9% 2PFG, 85.3% FT, 48.4% eFG
T-Mac: 26.8 pts, 7.5 rebs, 4.6 asts, 1.5 stls, 1.5 blks, 0.8 3's, 45.7% FG, 35.5% 3PFG, 46.8% 2PFG, 73.3% FT, 47.4% eFG

 

TMAC was no joke at that time. Super fun player to watch. But the coulda woulda shoulda scenarios is unattractive for athletes to do period. Never forget that Bron opened the door for the ringless to start chiming in with "It's a team game" and "If I had prime Shaq, I would've won too" nonsense.

You played for 15+ years, but never had a good opportunity? Who is that on? Sorry, I just don't buy it.