2022-23 Team Developments: News / Trades / Free Agents / Rumors

Not necessarily. I think Westbrook/Jones/JTA/2027 1st (top 4 protected)/2023 Bulls 2nd/2025 2nd for Rozier/Washington/Plumlee/Oubre is reasonable for both sides. Bev/Nunn/Jones/JTA/2027 1st/2023 Bulls 2nd/2025 Lakers 2nd for Rozier/Washington also works. With that being said, I would also trade Westbrook/Jones/JTA/2023 Bulls 2nd for Rozier/Hayward/Washington.

 

Mitchell went for 71 tonight! He scored or assisted on 99 points.
I’m laughing at Ainge right now.

 

Okay, but I really don’t think Rob will. There is no big “star” coming our way.

 

Trae Young, Hunter, Oungwu for Brick, None, Jones plus picks

 

no way atl goes for this. i do think someone is going to get collins at a low price before the deadline, though.

 

Perhaps read slower? Never said he wasn't a shooter (seems you want to make the argument about something that it isn't). He is a decent shooter for sure and I would most certainly have interest in him IF I knew AD was coming back and I also didn't have to take on Hayward's contract as well (and it isn't a trade AT ALL that should require a first round pick because of the money still owed to him)...

So there really isn't any real world argument because I also never said Beverley was a better shooter than Rozier either (just another thing you pulled out of your a**) but stated facts that Rozier didn't have a great career percentage and Beverley's career number was better, which it is.

Yes, this season seems to be an outlier but truth is he has been on the decline each of the last 4 seasons (41% in 2019-20, 39% in 2020-21, 37% last season and his career low number of 31% this year).

The other "fact" I pointed out was a career 37 and 36.9% is NOT close to 40% but rather closer to 35% (math tells you this since it is 2 and 1.9 difference from 35 and a much larger 3 and 3.1 away from 40).

So instead of wanting to stir the pot and make your argument on stuff I didn't say (Bowen and Harden comments, etc) you stick with making the argument about what I actually say.

Although we need size on the perimeter and he doesnt help in that regard and his decline from distance should be at least somewhat of a worry- I repeat I wouldn't mind having him.....I don't however entertain a package that also includes Haywards' 30+ million for next season.

 

so what was the point of the statement if you knew that it meant absolutely nothing?

here's your quote, in response to vince defending rozier as a good shooter:

you're the one that seizes on useless minutiae (ACTUALLY, they're closer to 35% than 40%, you see!) instead of looking at the obvious fact that for the last three years, rozier would have been the best shooter on our team by a wide margin. instead you focus on 1.5% annual decrements that bottom out at 37%. on a high volume of more frequently contested shots. and btw, this season is the definition of an outlier in rozier's career.

patrick beverley is not a better shooter than rozier (or hayward, for that matter, or lots of other players who shoot a lower percentage).

so yeah, pretty unclear what the actual point you're trying to make is if it isn't that rozier is a bad shooter (he's not; he's a good one).

then you switch to "he doesn't do what we need" because you've recognized that your first argument is a bad one. isn't everyone screaming that we needed perimeter shooting? nobody's trading us a big wing who can shoot 37% from three on high volume and defend superstars. unless we're giving them lebron or AD.

but this little side argument was about whether rozier is a good shooter, and he is.

 

Also making your argument comparison between Beverley and Rozier by using Harden and Bowen is what was really DISINGENUOUS.

Besides the fact that it simply wasn't a central part of the game back then (3pt shooting) and his career percentage is some 30 points higher than Harden's (.393 to .362) what makes James better is because of pure volume, not accuracy. Hell 3 seasons in a row he jacked up 10 plus a game, including the year he scored 36ppg (13.2 attempts). Of course only once has he shot 39% or better doing it, so is he really a more accurate shooter- no.

But that isn't the case when comparing Rozier and Bev. Their career marks are actually pretty close:

Beverley 1.6 makes/4.1 attempts/.377%
Rozier 2.0 makes/5.4 attempts/.371%

I mean seriously dude, you should do more homework....

 

Ya most of what you typed there I never said. I pointed out many things on why I wouldn't make a trade (the one I was replying specifically to included Hayward) and NONE of them was me saying Beverley was a better shooter (I give the edge to Rozier because of volume, but it is closer than you think)...

And no I didnt switch, the point that we needed size and better perimeter defense was said and EMPHASIZED in my first post, you evidently can't read very well.

Lastly, no the argument was never whether Rozier was a decent or even a good shooter (we are only moderately apart on that)- this is what you wanted to make the argument about and yet I emphasized many other things in my first post (money owed, defense, his decline in shooting- something you won't admit, cap space, Hayward being part of the deal, etc)......

This isn't the first time you have done this either which is why I had you blocked. Stick to the actual argument and quit saying stuff that other people never said, it isn't cool

 

ok, so you ARE saying that beverley is a better shooter than rozier. at least you're finally owning up to it.

the next step is admitting you're wrong.

during terry's GREAT DECLINE years, he shot 41% on 6.7 attempts, 39% on 8.3 attempts, and 37% on 8.1 attempts. you're letting his first two years in the league, in which he barely shot threes, bring down his average. since he started shooting threes, he shoots about 30-40% more threes than does beverley.

for their careers, 78% of rozier's threes are assisted. wow, that's a lot. unless you compare it to patrick beverley's 88%. for reference, a guy like jamal murray is at about 68% there, and guys like harden, doncic, and lebron are the only ones who drop below 50% regularly (curry's at 60%, bruce bowen was at 99%, lol).

more importantly, however, only 20% of rozier's three point attempts this year are catch and shoot, versus 50% for beverley. further inspection demonstrates that almost every three bevs takes is either "open" or "wide open". rozier takes at least 2 threes with defenders within 2-4 feet of him per game. bevs does this once every five games or so.

so yeah, comparing bevs' raw 3 pt % to rozier's is either disingenuous or dumb. you can choose, i guess. homework submitted.

 

Obviously the reading slower suggestion didnt work.

Actually when making a decision on which was the better shooter, I specifically said "I give the edge to Rozier because of volume". That would be- for any normal person- the clearest declaration on who I said was the better shooter of the two. Just not you for some reason lol

A big F on your homework, because again you wanted to make the argument about something it wasn't, which you repeatedly do. Hell, your opening sentence proved that you are just wanting to argue for argue sake as well as your inclusion of the word "great" which was never said and you even felt the need to put it in CAPS.

Then somehow you make your point about the "catch and shoot"- completely ignoring the point that it is EXACTLY what we need on the team right now. We MOST DEFINITELY need it MORE THAN WE NEED ANOTHER GUARD who creates his own. LeBron does that aplenty and AD also gets most of his looks that way....we need someone ready to catch and shoot, the one thing that more than any other is why we sit at 16-21 instead of 21-16 as we watch open miss after open miss this season.

It is what makes it absolutely IRRELEVANT that Rozier makes more of his 3's by creating his own when we need the exact opposite more....

 

yeah, not sure what you're blathering on about. we agree that terry rozier is a much, much better shooter than patrick beverley (even when wide open, btw--40% to 29% this year!), so i'm good.

you can now supply us with the trades that get us exactly what we need using our assets and no incriminating photos of rival front office members.

 

i never liked Terry and thought he just gets Green light cause Cha generally sucks but gota admit his 3s on the move and catch shoot is alot of what we need compared to Oscar, also looked at Graham in NOP same way, he shoots better 3pt% then overall fg %

 

terry rozier isn't a savior by any stretch, but he's a legitimate offensive threat who could actually take pressure off the stars with his shotmaking and the threat thereof. there aren't many guys on the trade market with those attributes. and this is why we've been after him since last year, of course. he's like jason terry was for dallas. we could really use that.

 

it’s a joke but there are some recent smoke there about Trae getting frustrated day after day. Probably a season or two away from a trade demand. Another candidate for Rob’s next “mystery” star

 

i know you're joking but a) i think us holding out for a star is a bit of media fabrication and b) i think it's a good idea for a destination franchise like the lakers to constantly be scanning the horizon for who's going to want out and making sure you can at least get your hat in the ring when the time comes. what i hate is when teams think the only way to do this is via cap space. if you just field a roster of players who produce at their salary level, you can make cap space appear, no problem.

 

Ya, good to know you read half of what I was saying anyway lol

Nowhere did I ever imply that Rozier was a much, much better shooter though....so perhaps another round of Hooked on Phonics, maybe?

No. It is simple minded thinking to suggest that only focus on trade and that we are getting what we truly need this season (and should have made more of a priority this offseason) and that should be the only end game we focus on here. I mentioned how those type of players are never traded just a few posts back. Doesn't meant we should settle or make a bad trade either.

Truth be told we shouldn't be looking to make any trade now that is taking on major salary in future years WITHOUT knowing when exactly AD is going to be back. We aren't contending this season unless he makes it back 100%, and sooner rather than later.

You also can't automatically rule out getting what we actually need (big wings) the next 3 seasons either which becomes almost impossible and definitely a lot harder by taking on Rozier's contract.

But like I said in the beginning (and really the only point I was making) we can and should do a whole lot better if in fact we are going to make a move prior (and definitely after) to AD's return. Sure Rozier is an option, but I dont think they are really looking to move him separately (and would want more than PBEV/Nunn if they were which means ASSETS) and one thing none of us should want is a package that includes Hayward's 31.5 million cap hit for next season. Gettin rid of a bad contract (RW) for an even worse one (GH) is not smart. Rozier, IMO simply isn't worth that.

I would just as soon get Hield, who has only a year remaining on his deal, making considerably less than Terry, 3 inches taller and is the purest definition of a much, much better shooter than Beverley....if in fact we are looking to give up our cap space for next season.

Career 40% shooter including 43% this season on 3.8 makes per game...

 

“Hooked on Phonics” blast ….

 

Bulls. Getting 71 dropped on them by spyda and 5-5 in last 10.lost 2 in a row with a heavy schedule coming up ... Toronto at 16-21 same record as bulls 3-7 in last 10 also with a heavy schedule coming up we will see what happens soon