Gender Equality Thread

Free
I was talking about traditional families and kids growing up with models and unique insights from both sexes, if society (as a whole and how young kids grow up) became as willy nilly as that. Sure two gay guys or gay gals can find a way to bring a child into their relationship, and I'm sure that in the very, very best of those relationships the kid may turn out OK. But wow, if anyone thinks kids don't need or deserve the input from both sexes and loving, intact families to have their best chances to thrive and be well adjusted growing up. The very best of the hetero couples also need to understand and still love, nurture and support if the child winds up.....by nature, or by choice, being gay.

 

@LTLakerFan
It seems like you're ignoring the fact that homosexual people actually feel that they are homosexual. It also seems like you think there is something that men can teach that women can't, and vice versa. Why is it necessary to learn from both a person with a vagina and a person with a penis? And why can't people love someone who has the same genitalia as them? I'm not asking you to do anything you're uncomfortable with, I'm just asking you to be okay with other people doing that stuff. It doesn't harm you.

 

I don't know where you got this other stuff in your reply, that's not highlighted above, as it certainly is not what I was talking about and I don't appreciate you putting words in my mouth in a topic such as this. Why don't you just call me a homophobe while you're at it?

And like I said above, Wow, if you don't think kids get the "best shot" at a balanced view of the world and life growing up with both male and female input, hopefully in an intact and loving family. Because you happen to get a "notion" as you said on the other page, doesn't suddenly invalidate the entire history of the human condition with regard to input and feedback and learning from a mother which is different and special to a child and from a father for the same reason. If it were a pair of gay women, then I would maintain there should be a male figure at least as a concerned and caring friend around frequently for the child, or if a gay pair of men, then conversely at least a concerned and caring female friend around frequently.

I remember years ago reading that herds of young male elephants were running amok around African villages doing all kinds of damage because the adult males had mostly been poached and killed off that would have complemented the young ones' social learning.

You also had this "notion":
"I also had the notion for a few months that I couldn't see sports going on for too much longer... It's just a pleasureful manifestation of "man" power, is it not? Think about it, the best athletes used to be gladiators... "

LOL what happened to woman's sports.... they're outdated too?

 

I'm sorry if you think I'm putting words in your mouth, but I'm not. I was reiterating what I thought you were saying, and questioning you based off that - not formulating my argument based off that (I wasn't sure exactly what you were saying, so I was questioning for clarification).

Regardless, this post ^ confirmed what you bolded in my post. I still don't understand, what specifically does a baby gain from learning form a mother and father vs. two mothers or two fathers? That's not homophobic, it's sexist. It means that only a man can teach some things, and a woman has some things that a man can't teach also. What specifically does a mother teach versus a father? And why can't the mother teach what the father can, and vice versa?

All you're saying is "kids have the best shot at a balanced world view with both male and female input." All I'm saying is "why?" I'm not disagreeing with you, or else I wouldn't even care to reply. I'm also not agreeing with you, because then I would have no need to reply. I'm just trying to further my point of view.

 

Free, men and women are not the same. They are different physically and emotionally. It's as simple as that. Maybe someone else can put it into words here better for you but I am at a loss as to why you would need to have it explained to you. You seem like a smart guy.

Are there exceptions to the "general" physical and emotional differences between the sexes? Of course, there are exceptions to everything.

 

For healthy development, a child needs:
1. To feel safe, physically and emotionally.
2. To feel loved, supported, and valued.
3. To be taught moral values, both explicitly and implicitly.

None of those 3 are gender specific, necessarily.

 

What do you mean by that, just asking?

Are you channeling Hilary's "It takes a village" years ago, just asking?

You are big on not discounting the small or tiniest % of exceptions to the norm or average in this thread. How does that play out with happy, successful, "traditional" families? Are they dismissed because so few? Not to still be aspired to? Or whatever % or portion or you have in mind when you say the first sentence?

 

all my life i lived by a code, and the code is simple: honor the gods, love your woman, and defend your country.


just thought this thread needed to be lightened up

 

trodgers

All the childs' lives they grow, go to school, then work and have relationships with men and woman as friends and professionally. Hopefully the child winds up well adjusted and strong mentally and comfortable with both of the sexes and within their own skin. I think we all want that.

I consider myself a smart guy and have learned to very much value the accuracy of my observations in the many areas I'm very interested in, with first and foremost Lakers basketball being one. As such I'm going to value my opinion below as much as you value yours. As to your studies, who knows, I'm going with what I have experienced and seen all around me in a really smart, major media town my whole life with well over 1 million in population. I'm not in a Kansas prairie somewhere just for reference, no offense to Kansans or prairies. Elementary schools, grade schools, high schools in the mix and colleges nearby. There's lots of hellish neighborhoods that unfortunately people live in but there's also lots of great cities to live in with large populations, that are good as my city or better, or nearly as good I'm sure.

My opinion has the caveat that we are dealing with healthy, intelligent, mature and loving people in the child's life, not all the negative outcomes thrown out above. They are just as likely to occur in alternative parenting situations, or more, to cause similar and same problems. I don't buy your "hoop jumping" possibly more qualifies some of the possible scenarios below other than my favorite "PICK" to be BETTER at child rearing. This is what my common sense and observations tell me:

BEST 2 parent family unit....... Heterosexual healthy, intelligent, mature and loving mom and dad. Mature enough to accept and still give their all with love and best efforts for the child if the child at some point self determines they are gay. This is how we get newborn babies the normal biological way of our species in a two parent family. No outside third party is brought into the equation. A baby, child, adolescent or young adult hanging with Mom and her maternal instincts all day doing anything they both enjoy is great, and it is a different emotional experience than hanging with Dad all day. Balanced. The emotional and physical presence of both sides of the sexes are different, no matter how that gets spun as being irrelevant. Again, childhood friends, school, older friends, work place, social events the child > then > adult's whole life is spent around BOTH sexes.

WORST family unit..... Not from divorce, again, talking about the "winners" in life and smart ones, hopefully college educated like most of us..... one of them dies suddenly and tragically it becomes a 1 parent family.

WORST 1B ....."planned" single parenthood. Can work OK, sure, but we are talking best interests of the child.

2nd Best 2 parent family unit..... Whether from adoption or surrogacy ..... if 2 gay female parents, at least 1 straight male friend the women both love and want to share as a loving person in their child's life. Balance. The women can be PHD's and mensa members in my observation, but that would not make up for the fact neither one is a "Man".

This is my common sense and my observation. Don't hate on me or twist what I am saying. Tell me why, if you honestly believe it would be better for the child if the guy was also gay than my "2nd Best scenario family unit.

2nd Best 1A 2 parent family unit..... Reverse all of the sexes of course if 2 gay male parents. The men can also be PHD's and mensa members. Neither one is a "Woman".

That's as best I think I can explain my view on this, and as a father with two children who have grown up successfully. And with what I experienced in my childhood.

 

Both your replies above.... I gave my most intellectually honest and common sense opinions.

Your reply. "Empirical claims, and they're either true or false - and I surely don't know which". How about being as intellectually honest with me and giving your common sense take. Am I wrong here? Are males and females interchangeable with either one of them not present NOT being a "loss" in a developing child's life? I kind of spilled my guts there as honestly as possible and this is an important subject.

 

OK good enough Travis, thanks. I respect that. And I can add no more as well.