How is your “maybe” any kind of excuse for what JSM just detailed of the organization’s actions this year with regard to Frank and how it looked?
It's rather obvious that the FO didn't have as high of an opinion on Frank, as some fans on this board. It's that simple, some of his actions led to his firing too. The bottom line is that the team wasn't supposed to be built around Frank Vogel and his scheme. He is supposed to coach the roster he was given and get the best out of it. That's what a HC does, it didn't work out and he got fired. We move on, I appreciate the ring, but I don't think he was this huge factor in getting it. Injuries derailed the whole show IMO, but the FO decided that he could have done better with what he did have over these last two seasons and they let him go. I'm not sure what you want to hear. It looks to me that the two best players on the team, didn't exactly stand up for him and the GM wanted to fire him back in December. The firing was inevitable. Yes it could have been done with more class, but I don't know what went on behind the scenes between Frank and the FO either. All we know about is a few things leaked by the media, that are mostly sympathetic to Vogel. I'm optimistic about moving on to the next HC myself . Thanks for the ring Frank. I Wish him the best.
“Yes it could have been handled with more class” Thank you. Like pulling teeth with you. How much have you written in the last couple days playing devil’s advocate as to why maybe it was not what it seemed.
Frank has a ring he'll be alright, he's in rare company for life. I don't think the way we handled him, is going to deter the next guy from taking this job at all. Again we don't know everything that went on between the two sides here. Maybe it wasn’t how it seemed..IDK. On another note...the FO had three candidates for this job. Williams, Lue and Vogel. Kurt insisted that Kidd be added to the staff. All three of those guys turned out to be good coaches since then. And Frank has a Championship ring.Maybe this FO isn't all that incompetent.
HA!! See? You just can't stand to come completely off having your heels dug in a certain way. I get it. That's you. But it was exactly how it seemed to the rest of the NBA and people who cover it well. https://theathletic.com/3246755/202...-blame/?source=freedailyemail&campaign=601983 An excerpt: "Pelinka already bungled the first move of the offseason by failing to control the news of Vogel’s pending dismissal. Rather than acknowledge that Vogel deserved something better, Pelinka dismissed the initial news report as “speculative and unsourced.” Vogel wasn’t fired, in Pelinka parlance, he just transition “from being the leader of the Lakers to part of our legacy.” "Now he needs to find a willing replacement for a mistreated coach and to unveil a long-term strategy for the next stage of the Lakers partnership with LeBron."
^^^ the complete article: Oram: Rob Pelinka accepts responsibility because there’s no one else to blame By Bill Oram Apr 13, 2022 135 The Los Angeles Lakers were turnover-prone long before Russell Westbrookbecame their highest-paid player. To see it, one needed only to look at their bench year after year. In the last five seasons, the Lakers have cycled through three head athletic trainers, three head strength coaches and a couple dozen supporting staffers. To say nothing of a roster that has been overhauled annually. Now, they are looking for their third head coach in that span. With Rob Pelinka’s Lakers, there has always been someone to take the fall. But after firing Frank Vogel on Monday, the Lakers general manager is running out of human shields. What comes next will be squarely on him. Pelinka seemed to understand that on Monday, when he acknowledged the source of the Lakers issues in a 33-49 season that ended on Sunday. “Our roster did not work,” he said bluntly. Contrast that to a year ago: When the defending-champion Lakers were eliminated in the first round by Phoenix, Pelinka lamented “a championship-caliber roster” that fell short because of circumstances “that weren’t within our control.” To his credit, Pelinka struck a much different tone after a second straight disappointment, and third in four years. “I’m the one who leads the basketball operations department,” he said, “and will take ultimate accountability for the roster decisions that are made.” Pelinka still tried to tie his life raft to others. He hid behind the decision to fire Vogel as a “collaboration” with Jeanie Buss and Tim Harris, the Lakers president of business; he highlighted the responsibilities of the coaching and training staffs; he made sure to remind everyone that Kurt Rambis and brothers Joey and Jesse Buss had a hand in building the roster, too. But after he pulled the trigger on the trade for Russell Westbrook, refused to match an offer for Alex Caruso, overinvested in Talen Horton-Tucker, and created such a void of depth that the Lakers needed to sign eight players to minimum contracts, there really was no point in Pelinka trying to hide behind anyone else in the organization. This team was his responsibility. And the next one will be, too. Pelinka made himself more accountable than ever before, but he did not look comfortable doing so. Beneath the table, he tapped his left foot nervously, like a gliding duck paddling furiously underwater. Is he on the clock? Would Jeanie Buss put him there? Consider the next five months the Summer of Pelinka. The GM is entering an offseason where he faces more pressure than he has since 2019, when Magic Johnson bolted and left Pelinka holding the bag. “I’m confident that, like we did in 2019 after a year of disappointment, we (will) put our heads together,” Pelinka said Monday, “and I think we’ll spend the next several weeks and months doing an autopsy of what worked well and what didn’t work well this year and come out of that with a clear plan of how to get it right in July.” But this is a different situation than three years ago. Back then, the Lakers had Lonzo Ball and Brandon Ingram. They had draft picks. They had assets to wave around like a whale on the casino floor with his roll of hundreds. This time, there is no trade to be made like the one Pelinka executed for Anthony Davis. Honestly, Johnson left Pelinka with a golden opportunity: a wealth of trade assets and a motivated LeBron James. This situation requires a far defter touch. He will need to make a decision about Westbrook — a conundrum that would seem to put two of the Lakers’ fundamental values in opposition to one another: keeping the books clean to sign another top free agent in 2023? Or taking on long-term money to get rid of Westbrook and give themselves the best chance of winning with LeBron James next season? It would seem to be an easy choice — the Lakers were ready to stray from their 2023 cap space plan last summer, when they nearly traded for Buddy Hieldinstead of Westbrook. But the Lakers remember all too well what happens when an embattled front office fixates too heavily on the short term: The Lakers only just stopped paying Luol Deng after the ill-planned summer of 2016 in which Mitch Kupchak and Jim Buss signed Deng and Timofey Mozgov for a combined $136 million. Kupchak and Buss didn’t make it to another summer. Can Pelinka learn from the past and somehow navigate these narrow corridors? Acquiring multiple starters for Westbrook would seem to be a huge win for Pelinka. And while teams are always eager to shed bad contracts, would teams expect extra draft compensation to play ball with the Lakers? Pelinka already bungled the first move of the offseason by failing to control the news of Vogel’s pending dismissal. Rather than acknowledge that Vogel deserved something better, Pelinka dismissed the initial news report as “speculative and unsourced.” Vogel wasn’t fired, in Pelinka parlance, he just transition “from being the leader of the Lakers to part of our legacy.” Now he needs to find a willing replacement for a mistreated coach and to unveil a long-term strategy for the next stage of the Lakers partnership with LeBron. James may have said on Monday that he had not yet given much thought to the two-year extension he will be eligible to sign later this season, but you can bet Pelinka has. “Every indication that we’ve received is that he sees the Lakers as his home,” Pelinka said. That extension can’t be hammered out until August anyway. So between now and then, the two people who will be watching Pelinka most closely will be James and Jeanie Buss. Sources have told The Athletic that Pelinka has two years left on the contract extension that accompanied his promotion to vice president of basketball operations last year. Would Jeanie fire Pelinka, who she views as an extension of Kobe Bryant? Another disaster like last season, and she would almost have no choice. Pelinka didn’t have to tell us he would accept responsibility. He’s the only one left. (Photo: Christian Petersen/Getty Images)
Maybe he really feels like Vogel got the treatment that he deserved? I really don't know man. Of course he at least tried to take a stab at a little damage control. However I really don't think Rob gives AF . I'm going to wait until we start interviewing candidates, before I judge how much fallout is actually at play for the way things went down with Frank. I'm nonplussed about what the media thinks, most of them are anti Lakers anyway.
Anyone can write names on a piece of paper. Those other two turned us down. Rejection doesn't equate to competency. If it did...Gal Gadot, Mila Kunis, Olivia Munn. See. Doesn't work that way.
No.We singled those two guys out and offered them the job. They didn't agree to the terms that we offered, but that doesn't mean that we didn't identify the right candidates. We did add Kidd to the staff too and maybe we actually missed his impact this season?
totally agree. last year's roster was fine. championship caliber. this year's? nope. glad rob gets that.
This year's debacle is definitely on Rob's shoulders. If casual fans could see that Brick would be a dumpster fire, why didn't Rob see it? That's his job. Superstars are always going to try to get their guys on a team. So do coaches. It's the GM's job to make the moves that's best for the team, no matter who suggests it. Remember when Kobe wanted to trade Bynum for Kidd back in 2007? Mitch didn't do it. Why? Because it wasn't the right move. The Brick Debacle is 100% on Rob. If he can't stand up to Lebron if Lebron has a terrible trade idea, like trading for Brick for example, maybe Rob should kick rocks.
That's digging up bones, and I've already moved on. I'm ready to complain about next season's new coaching hire and signings.
My biggest fear right now is that Rob over compensates for his failures this past season by filling the roster with a bunch of really young and unproven players. Is it really too much to ask for a well balanced roster?
Well, he has done it once before, and, IF LeGM and AD wouldn’t have been so worn down and injured after the Bubble run, I believe that team could have defended their title. As for what he did last summer, we’ve said all of the words.
eh, yes and no. he underproduced this year, but someone who had shown what he had getting the MLE for less than the full amount of years isn't shocking. and he can still recover and be more than worth that, imo. i view him as a kuz/kcp level player when used right, and they (appropriately) make more than that.
have to pull a rabbit out of the westbrook hat. honestly, rob's job is maybe on the line with that like mitch/jim were with the mozdeng FA. let's hope this goes better.
Reaves, Johnson and Gabriel were pretty good pickups on the cheap. There will be more out there this summer, we have at least 6 slots available. Stay away from the old guys, the Lakers scouting department is excellent.
