2022-23 Team Developments: News / Trades / Free Agents / Rumors

It's the same argument from a statistical viewpoint but some things can't be quantified into stats. Again with McGee and Howard we won a title, with Gasol we were a shell of ourselves from the prior year. Watch the game, see the impact of each player. Stats don't tell a complete story. I mean hell, half of you are clamoring for Dudz to take an active roster spot and he isn't even gonna play anyways. Miami is doing the same thing with Haslem and when's the last time they won a title? When he was actually contributing to the court with minutes not from the bench.

You want stats we were ranked 1st and 6th in defense and offense on our championship run, last year we were 1st and 24th and what happened these stats matter more than the ones you posted..We couldn't score the ball. Maybe Gasol isn't the answer and he's going to be a year older lol. C'mon. It was the opinion of many league insiders that it was a huge mistake letting Howard walk to Philly last year and that Pelinka screwed the pooch on that especially on a minimum contract.

Let's take a look at the team as now constructed from a vague viewpoint, just an eye test so to say. We have a much older starting rotation and lost key pieces that defended well. Our defense is going to take a hit this year no doubt about it at least in my eyes and Gasol is supposed to make us that much better? On the flip side our offense is going to thrive even when Bron isn't on the floor with the addition of Russ and the elevated shooting numbers from beyond the arc of our new addition wings. An aged roster is gonna have to choose where it wants to use it's gas tank and I believe with this roster we are going to have to outscore our opponents and focus more energy on that end to win then trying to be the leagues number 1-5 defense this year. I just don't see that happening, we don't have the defenders to do it. Situationally we should be able to defend when it matters but we are gonna be in a lot more shootouts this year than not. Our best lineup is gonna be AD at the 5 with the floor spaced with 40%ers beyond the arc and Bron/Russ pulling the puppet strings.

 

jesus, people. if you're just going to ignore that out two top five players were hurt (and that we were kicking everyone's a** with gasol prior to those injuries), i'm not sure what to say. it's pretty ridiculous.

why do we bash gasol's defense when our defense was #1 with him as center? "he's washed; he's so slow".

our offense was what was worse last year (though again, that was about lebron and AD being out half the year). our defense was the same or better. that's with gasol and trez playing the center spots instead of the heroes of yesteryear.

lol. drummond starting was a condition of his signing. gasol was producing...wins. until AD and lebron got hurt. then nobody was. howard and mcgee certainly wouldn't have. they were just lucky enough not to play with an injured lebron and AD.

lol @ drummond being better. good lord. so glad that guy isn't here anymore. actively made us worse on both ends somehow.

but he runs fast, so...yay i guess.

gasol being benched was the final nail in last season's coffin (ok, AD's playoff injury was really the final nail), and benching trez without even giving him a real opportunity in the playoffs was also pretty dumb. it wouldn't have made a difference (BECAUSE NO AD), but it was still lame, and trez has a right to be pissed.

yes; just like before. and once again, gasol/howard/mcgee/trez don't figure at all. our center is a placeholding starter as long as we have AD at pf. people acting like gasol was the root of all problems last year have several layers of issues to sort through, this being chief among them. if only we had howard...we would have been the same or worse (if you believe, you know, all quantitative evidence), folks.

gasol may be "washed" (still not sure where this term comes from, and it's grown to be particularly annoying to me for obvious reasons) this year. we have yet to see him play. but he wasn't done in toronto or last year. that's just a weird story folks are telling themselves because they desperately want a scapegoat or something.

we lost because we were injured. period. all other arguments are honestly really bad.

 

What happened is our two best offensive players were injured. Lebron missed almost 40% of the season and AD missed exactly half the season. No shock that we didn't perform well offensively then last year.

But if we made such a huge mistake in letting Howard walk and signing Gasol (with AD - our best defender out injured) how were we such a good defensive team if Gasol is washed?

Why is it assumed our defence will suffer or that we don't have the defenders?

We still have AD, who is a DPOY caliber defender and should be more healthy. We have both Gasol and Howard who are excellent defenders at the 5. So the main pieces of our scheme are still top notch.

Lebron is still highly intelligent in help defence and can play bursts of good defence. THT should continue to improve and can give us an extra look defending 1-3.

We lost KCP but have replaced him with Bazemore and Ariza, who are both positive wing defenders. We lost Caruso but have added Westbrook - who has played elite defence at times as well as Nunn who can be a positive defender.

Last year we made Schroder, KCP, Kuzma, Morris and Gasol into a good defensive team. Why are we assuming that Westbrook, Bazemore, Lebron, AD, Gasol/Howard won't be good?

 

This is a great point, we started the season 21-6 with everyone healthy. We were on track for a 56 win season (72 game season) and the first seed.

We now have a third star as an insurance policy if we lose one of Lebron and AD to injury.

 

Yeah for the 99th time, AD and Lebron being injured was the main reason we went out in the first round. And yeah Gasol is still washed. The two aren't at odds with each other in the least.I am commenting on the center position specifically, not that Marc Gasol or Andre Drummond or Montrez Harrell, ruined our season. That was NOT the case. However I reject this idea that Gasol, somehow was some big factor in our record before AD went down. We weren't exactly kicking everyone's a** either, we did have a good start, hell Lebron and AD are top 5 players in the NBA. I just totally disagree that Marc Gasol was some critical part in the equation. I guess the same could be said for everybody on the team at that point.
He wasn't washed in Toronto? You have to be some kind of Gasol Stan or something, he was horrible in the bubble, horrible before they got to the bubble. The Raptors didn't even offer him a contract. No one else did either besides us.. He turned in a similar effort in LA IMO. These wins that he was producing that you speak of? Umm..They didn't sign Drummond because Gasol was killing it man.. The great Laker defense was somehow dependent on Gasol, and his 20 minutes when he did play? That's your position? I'm not scapegoating him, just voicing my opinion on how he flat out sucked except for a handful of games. Yes I know he was a placeholder, minor piece and all that. Im just saying that he was unimpressive at that too.

 

Don’t think that’s a fair take at all. I don’t know if there has been a more high profile player bought out than Drummond. We had the opportunity to take a chance on a near max player for the minimum when our two best players were injured. We rolled the dice to see if we could turn the season around. What’s that got to do with Gasol?

I don’t think abeer or myself are arguing that Gasol is a big part of winning or some amazing player. But this concept that he is terrible isn’t correct. He is a good defender, passer and a good but unwilling 3pt shooter. For the minimum and at 15 mins a game, what’s the problem?

 

The Raptors were the 2nd highest rated defense in the 2019-2020 season. We were up at the top even after AD went down and we didn't really regress until Drummond was inserted into the starting lineup. At some point, the argument that he had nothing to do with elite defensive teams is tired. Nobody has said Gasol was killing it, but we were a better team with him as the starting center, injuries or not. It's also okay to say Gasol was solid but that we still needed help at center. I don't anybody was ever clamoring for him to play 30MPG.

 

I think we could do better for the vet minimum and 15 min a game than Gasol. That's my opinion, I'd rather have Cousins, or Drummond on a minimum deal over Gasol. That Jones kid we had too.

 

exactly. the pitchfork gasol crowd is what i'm reacting to. i'm not a "stan" because i insist that he was a bargain at the vet min and equal to or better than any center we've had since lopez. these are just facts.

he was not hurting the team in any way. the team was as good or better with him and trez as they were with howard and mcgee. so bizarre that a few people on here want to perseverate with a narrative that he was terrible.

edit: and i just can't with cousins and drummond. people complain that gasol is too slow to defend and want cousins. complain he's not enough of an offensive threat and want drummond.

 

30 games is not a season bruh. If you really want to be honest about it, check the schedule again, we weren't exactly playing the toughest schedule in the NBA before AD sat out. I'm just saying

 

30 games isn't a season, but the bubble overshadows an entire year.

gasol's defensive metrics are nearly as good as they've ever been, which at one point led the league!

the onus isn't on me to claim he's great; it's on the people claiming he's terrible to prove it. no one has advanced a single compelling argument, imo.

 

The team was as good or better with him and Trez...this keeps getting thrown out.. based off of what? 30 games? Is that why he got benched? He was the best center we had since Lopez, yet Vogel was incapable of recognition of this obvious fact? I'm not surprised Rob tried to dump him on Minnesota either. Everyone doesn't hold Marc in as high esteem as you do. Yep...Cousins coming off Achilles and an ACL is still more mobile and athletic than Gasol. Better offensive threat too. Drummond was more of an offensive threat than Gasol and much better rebounder. Bad hands, missed layups and all.

 

30 is also an understatement, he started 42 games last year. I'd say half a season is a pretty good sample size for the top 1 or 2 rated defense. Especially when you consider that the built in excuse that he got to play with AD was also missing for almost half those games.

 

don't waste your time. he's wrong. he's advocating for cousins, for pete's sake!

in other FA news:



now we know why mills didn't come here.

 

I'm not all in on the top rated defense stuff either. Holding the ball until late in the shot clock, not crashing the offensive boards so that we can get back on d, limiting fast breaks, playing solid on the defensive glass, those things factor a lot into defensive rankings too. Those things limit possessions. However when you get to the playoffs, you must be able to score or you won't advance. All the teams are playing decent defense in the post season, it gets tighter as you advance. I don't think the top rated defense stuff won us the chip in the bubble either. AD and Lebron were able to consistently score down the stretch of games that was more important than our defensive rating. Don't get me wrong here though, I'm not trying to say defense doesn't matter. With AD..it will always be a strength for us, he is elite in that regard.

 

You are obviously semi blind and overly dependent on stats when discussing hoops.

 

our defense was top on a per-possession basis, so no, it wasn't about those things.



and both sides of the ball are important, obviously, but people's arguments against gasol are almost always situated in terms of defense, which is an absolutely ridiculous and baseless claim. but keep at it.

 

And so those team's defensive prowess, accomplished exactly what for them in the playoffs? Of course Golden State didn't even make the playoffs. 2nd round exit at best. Again...I think crowing about defensive rankings is misplaced. You need to be able to score against good defense in order to advance in the playoffs. Post those offensive numbers

 

Can’t believe that you don’t subscribe to the notion that Marc Gasol’s stellar 5 points and 4 rebounds wasn’t the contributing factor to our 21-6 record before AD went down.