President Trump

Yet it’s still quite possibly the best system in the world today.

I’m sorry to hear what you’re going through, and it speaks volumes about you being there with him.

I’m sorry if anything I said came across as sounding personal. It wasn’t. Minus socialism, which doesn’t work, I’m not sure how you achieve equality. Big box stores have definitely changed our world.

Things are broken on many levels, and politics suck in general. I have zero faith in our country’s leadership. But I can choose to keep a positive view on what I can control and carve out a niche that keeps me from dealing with the ugliness I guess.

 

You didn't say anything personal.

I meant what I said about you seemed like a decent person... which is all the more frustrating how so many decent people are fooled by this type of thinking. My cousin loves Trump and he's one of the best people I know, but he can't see it either.

The wealthy, especially the tech industries are privy to our every thought these days... they can tailor misinformation and political campaigns to manipulate the public any way they want.

Perfectly intelligent people are completely fooled by the rich and they have poor and middle class people doing their propaganda work for them.

It's the equivalent of serfs doing social media work for kings. Living vicariously through their royalty's success.

I totally disagree with you but no you didn't say anything that wasn't programmed into you by big money or cultural osmosis from a capitalist society Think of how you evolved your ideas.

Hopefully one day you'll see how they have everyone fooled.

 

https://arcdigital.media/u-s-health...tical-innovation-574241fb80ba?gi=c0d08d644b48

Universal healthcare in other countries depends upon the capitalist healthcare system of the United States for medical innovation.

If the US healthcare system becomes Medicare-For-All, say goodbye to medical advances for the rest of the world.

Thankfully, Trump is beginning to dismantle the Obamacare system.

 

I think it’s fascinating that you think my ideals have come about through programming, when I would say it’s exactly the opposite.

but it is amazing how two well intending people who want the best for their country can come to completely different conclusions with the same data. Our perspectives are born out of our life experiences, so it’s important to listen to different perspectives from people that grew up very different from ourselves to understand the other side.

 

We rank 37th in life expectancy

To paraphrase the old saying... with medical advances like this... who needs enemies?

We pay the most but we are 37th... Our own CIA had us ranked even lower

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

What difference does it make if your system keeps wealthy people alive longer than others but if your entire nation ranks so low while having the most bankruptcies and lives ruined because of it.

We are 37th... quit believing the propaganda

 

We’re 37th because...

Because we’re fat and lazy as a country, and eat like crap. The countries that live the longest eat very differently and have much more active lifestyles.

equating longevity to quality of “after the fact” healthcare in this case doesn’t register as an accurate correlation to me

people are not dying because they didn’t get routine check ups. They are dying from diseases that in most cases are very preventable if they made different life choices.

I have not participated in a paid health insurance program for most of the last 20 years. (I’m not 19) I find it fascinating that some citizens think that the government owes them free healthcare instead of taking responsibility for their own health.

The government is very large and very wasteful, and cannot effectively run something that large as we have plainly seen. Other countries that have insurance or medical from their government pay a massive amount more in taxes, and the quality of their care is not that great.

Canadians with money come across the border to get healthcare in the US because their system is in adequate. If you’re losing vision in one eye, that’s OK, because you have another one. Letting the government decide if you need treatment or not is not something I plan on participating in ever.

 

Prevention is just as much a part of medicine as the cure aspect.

We have a nation afraid to even visit the doctor or the emergency room because it's so expensive.

Maybe a doctor might tell a pre diabetic to stop overeating and scare them into better habits.

Anyway you spin it it's a huge fail by our medical system

We are 37th.

We are not even in the NBA... We are 7th in the G League and you guys are crowing about our system.

 

I just did not realize the government is responsible for how long I live. My bad.

 

Why stop there?

Why not have us pave our own roads, provide our own police, provide our own firemen, home school our own kids?

That's right... get off your lazy butt and hire your own police officer, fireman, school teacher for yourself and work two more jobs to pay for that

Don't you see how they've made something other countries provide naturally sound absurd?

Think man, think!

 

Life expectancy also incorporates other issues other than health care. Substance abuse, diet, suicide, and other causes of death like car crashes and murder play a part too.

Most of the countries ahead of us like Japan and Spain incorporate healthier diets than we do.

Also, Americans tend to drive cars more than countries that have more advanced and reliable public transportation. In 2016 we had 3 times as many traffic fatalities per capita than Japan or Spain. We had 12.4 car crash fatalities per 100,000 people. Both Japan and Spain had 4.1 deaths per 100,000 people. http://apps.who.int/gho/data/node.main.A997

It's you who is spreading propaganda. I'll take the innovation that a capitalist system provides. Wake me up when Cuba invents a new drug.

 

So why did we rank 13th in the 1950s when we were still driving the most cars and fell to 43rd?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_past_life_expectancy

Why do we charge 300 dollars for 3 dollars of insulin which it's own inventor wanted the world to share it?

Why did the epipen mark up happen? To cure cancer?

Give me a break... if you want to go to bat for the modern day Philip Morrises of the world, be my guest.

The system is immoral and designed to make profit not maximize the health of our nation.

 

There’s no doubt things are overpriced and the medical field pays out the wazoo for their lobbyists

but I just disagree with your conclusion

 

Because the rest of the world was still recovering from WWII.

Because our patent system needs reform.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robert...drug-industry-is-out-of-control/#70a661f778ca

Wrong.

Without profit, you have no incentive to innovate.

Maximizing health is a priority. Otherwise nobody will buy the new drugs or the new medical procedures. Unlike Obamacare, private companies can't force you to pay for their service.

 

I can see you get really fired up when people don’t agree with you. I’ve seen the same thing in Laker discussion.

you are no doubt dealing with a personal situation that impacts your view of this topic that I cannot relate to. there is a lot of corruption in the medical field and in any field that has a lot of money and involves government regulation. oil and gas, FDA, etc etc

many believe we already have a cure for cancer, but that it is suppressed because of the amount of money made by selling overpriced treatments

health insurance is a complete racket

it’s sad that it’s true, but from a purely business standpoint, they would prefer to treat the symptoms than the actual problem because there is more money to be made. It’s unethical. But it happens.

my mom died of cancer, and I’m now watching videos on the Internet of people saying they cured their cancer by drinking baking soda water. cancer grows in an acidic environment, and baking soda alkanalizes the body. Is it possible the cure is a freaking dollar?

if that was true, overnight the economy would be hugely impacted and tens of thousands of jobs would likely be lost. I now I drink some baking soda water almost daily because there’s no side effect and only potential benefit.

there are some things I think citizens should expect from their government and possibly even rely on them for. Military, roads, legal system, police, etc.

But I refuse to rely on the government for my personal health, and I think it’s a mistake to do so. We’ll never agree on this topic. I am responsible for my personal health, my physical activity, and what I shove into my pie hole. Not them.

How long I live is highly dependent upon how I take care of myself, and has very little to do with how the government takes care of me.

 

In the sixties we were still significantly better in life expectancy and that's when we were sending kids to Vietnam

It's been a steady decline in life expectancy compared to the countries with socialized medicine ever since.

I get what you are saying about innovation just like I get how the military spending gets us innovations as well, but my point still remains is that it doesn't translate into better life expectancy for Americans.

I have no problem with paying the scientist/s who solve cancer a 100 billion dollars... but I refuse to want to pay pharma sales reps, insurance companies, parasitical middle men another dime.

There's way too much money going out to pay for people who have nothing to do with people's health.

If we are talking about sports, entertainment, fashion, restaurant businesses... they can jack up the price however much they want and if people want to be stupid and waste thousands that is their right... but pharma sales people shouldn't be making six figures... the medical industry and education industry should be about saving people's lives and making them better.

 

Our life expectancy hasn't been declining. It's been stagnating. We weren't bombed during WWII. We didn't suffer under communist rule. Other countries have caught up or surpassed us.

As I've reiterated before, and you've conveniently ignored, life expectancy has many contributing factors that have nothing to do with health care.

If you're genuinely interested in paying scientists that invent new drugs, then you won't embrace socialism.

Sports athletes expect to be paid in accordance with their talents and abilities. So do doctors, nurses, pharmaceutical scientists, and medical device makers. This won't happen under socialism.

That's why these countries rely on us to bring them new drugs and new medical procedures. We are subsidizing them while we pay the costs for R&D.

 

While I agree there are fields that seem like they shouldn't be "marked up" like other industries, they are in a capitalistic society, and you don't get to choose. In order to draw top talent that wants to make money, it has to be that way.

it's why so many people don't want to be teachers


Chew on that. If you choose to be a teacher, it's your passion or what you feel your purpose is, but how many have chosen not to pursue the field due to a capped income potential?

You would suggest the same happen in medical? Really? I wouldn't.

 

Stagnating is f*cking horrible when you are talking about 75 years of medical advancements since the war.

Prevention is part of medicine... being proactive vs. waiting until everyone has end stage cancer.

If you offered 100 million each for solving every significant disease even let's say you offered monies for 100 important diseases that would only be 10 billion dollars in cost. But I'm not even saying to cap R&D... I'm saying to cut out the parasites who jack up the prices for life saving measures.

We don't pay tax on food... we shouldn't pay for pharma reps to jack up prices for retail profits on drugs necessary for people's survival.

We are 37th man... this is far from ideal and it's ridiculous to try to convince me that it is.

 

but those cute drug reps tho

 

They are selling medicine, not cosmetics.