I wouldn't care much if he couldn't make a free throw if he actually had a back to the basket game, something I think he could work on a lot easier than free throws at this point.
The categories their tracking now (Vantage, SportVU) are categorized as the following: Post-UP, Roll-Man, Put-Backs, Cut, Spot-up, Isolation, and Transition for Offense (First number Possessions, Second Number Points Per Possession.) Roll Man Tyson Chandler 143 1.41 DeAndre Jordan 103 1.36 Robin Lopez 156 1.17 Ed Davis 112 1.09 Brook Lopez 292 1.08 Brandon Wright 66 1.08 Marc Gasol 294 1.02 Al Jefferson 176 0.98 Cole Aldrich 72 0.97 Chris Kaman 138 0.96 Greg Monroe 147 0.93 Omer Asik 109 0.93 Jordan Hill 151 0.85 Kosta Koufos 105 0.84 Roy Hibbert 120 0.81 Kendrick Perkins 59 0.76 Putbacks Brandon Wright 31 1.32 Marc Gasol 54 1.24 Tyson Chandler 148 1.23 Brook Lopez 167 1.19 Greg Monroe 164 1.19 Ed Davis 153 1.18 Chris Kaman 89 1.18 DeAndre Jordan 232 1.11 Al Jefferson 62 1.11 Cole Aldrich 56 1.11 Jordan Hill 122 1.07 Kosta Koufos 73 0.99 Roy Hibbert 89 0.98 Omer Asik 162 0.94 Robin Lopez 123 0.92 Kendrick Perkins 47 0.83 Cut DeAndre Jordan 192 1.43 Brook Lopez 194 1.32 Tyson Chandler 164 1.29 Jordan Hill 123 1.18 Greg Monroe 119 1.18 Ed Davis 153 1.15 Marc Gasol 153 1.14 Kosta Koufos 123 1.14 Roy Hibbert 102 1.12 Cole Aldrich 78 1.10 Brandon Wright 61 1.07 Omer Asik 219 1.05 Robin Lopez 134 1.05 Chris Kaman 128 1.05 Al Jefferson 116 0.98 Kendrick Perkins 59 0.88 Transition Brandon Wright 28 1.50 Ed Davis 53 1.43 DeAndre Jordan 93 1.42 Kosta Koufos 26 1.35 Robin Lopez 17 1.35 Tyson Chandler 73 1.34 Greg Monroe 58 1.33 Al Jefferson 25 1.24 Marc Gasol 68 1.15 Omer Asik 28 1.11 Jordan Hill 50 1.10 Chris Kaman 26 1.04 Roy Hibbert 17 1.00 Cole Aldrich 10 1.00 Kendrick Perkins 12 0.92 Brook Lopez 43 0.86 He didn't rank highly in post-ups, spot-ups, and there was no data for isolation. However, you see on offense he does all the things that his limited game will allow him to do at a very high level. I'll post the defensive numbers up in a bit.
Centers Defensive PPP Possessions listed first, then PPP allowed (smaller is better) Post Up Tyson Chandler 174 0.68 Al Jefferson 175 0.71 Marc Gasol 186 0.74 Greg Monroe 131 0.74 Kendrick Perkins 76 0.76 Jordan Hill 163 0.77 Brook Lopez 185 0.79 DeAndre Jordan 207 0.82 Kosta Koufos 125 0.82 Robin Lopez 134 0.83 Brandon Wright 69 0.83 Omer Asik 173 0.87 Cole Aldrich 104 0.87 Roy Hibbert 152 0.89 Chris Kaman 114 0.91 Ed Davis 92 0.91 Roll Man Kosta Koufos 59 0.54 Marc Gasol 90 0.68 Omer Asik 51 0.69 Cole Aldrich 40 0.77 Tyson Chandler 60 0.83 Brook Lopez 96 0.86 Roy Hibbert 54 0.91 Robin Lopez 62 0.92 Greg Monroe 106 0.93 DeAndre Jordan 105 0.94 Ed Davis 64 0.95 Kendrick Perkins 32 0.97 Al Jefferson 96 1.07 Jordan Hill 53 1.08 Chris Kaman 53 1.13 Brandon Wright 31 1.19 Isolation Ed Davis 56 0.61 Kosta Koufos 39 0.67 Robin Lopez 58 0.69 Brandon Wright 27 0.74 Tyson Chandler 83 0.75 Chris Kaman 41 0.78 Omer Asik 77 0.81 Roy Hibbert 63 0.86 Marc Gasol 61 0.93 Brook Lopez 57 0.93 DeAndre Jordan 87 0.97 Kendrick Perkins 42 1.00 Al Jefferson 35 1.00 Cole Aldrich 23 1.04 Greg Monroe 43 1.09 Jordan Hill 37 1.24 Spot Up Roy Hibbert 78 0.81 Jordan Hill 106 0.85 Omer Asik 81 0.86 DeAndre Jordan 199 0.87 Robin Lopez 88 0.91 Greg Monroe 153 0.93 Marc Gasol 120 0.94 Brook Lopez 123 0.97 Brandon Wright 47 1.00 Tyson Chandler 147 1.01 Al Jefferson 65 1.01 Cole Aldrich 51 1.06 Kosta Koufos 57 1.07 Kendrick Perkins 75 1.12 Chris Kaman 69 1.13 Ed Davis 169 1.15
He's a roll man that usually gets his production off of hustle points i.e. cuts, transition, putbacks; also, good defensively challenging shots, grabbing rebounds, and ranking highly or middle of the road in every defensive category.
Greg Monroe and Marc Gasol have priority over him based on those numbers. Marc is obviously the top notch anchor that we know he is, offensively, he can hold his own. Greg Monroe, although not the shot changer that DeAndre is, puts up similar numbers defensively while having an edge offensively being a better post up player, and can hit his free throws.
Monroe also plays with Drummond. I think Monroe is best suited to play near a rim protecting center; I wouldn't trust his ability to secure the paint at all. Honestly, I kind of lost my desire to go after him...
If we're signing a Center though, I want one that's like Monroe. He's imperfect but his offense is invaluable to a team like ours that struggled to find a person we could rely on after Kobe. If we draft a guard/wing then my Center call list stands as: 1. Gasol 2. Monroe 3. Jordan 4. Aldridge (yeah I know a PF, but he's that good) 5. Chandler 6. Robin Lopez 7. Asik 8. Roy Hibbert 9. Koufos 10. Biyombo
DJ rated higher in every offensive category than Monroe besides just the Post-Up. If we're talking just about Monroe posting up, Post up Brandon Wright 18 1.17 Robin Lopez 63 1.06 Marc Gasol 533 0.95 Brook Lopez 268 0.94 Al Jefferson 659 0.93 Ed Davis 77 0.88 Greg Monroe 478 0.87 Roy Hibbert 418 0.86 Jordan Hill 168 0.82 Chris Kaman 143 0.80 DeAndre Jordan 66 0.74 Cole Aldrich 122 0.70 Kendrick Perkins 63 0.70 Kosta Koufos 75 0.69 Omer Asik 22 0.64 Tyson Chandler No Data That's out of 468 possessions. Clearly, a good sample size. He's middle of the pack.
This talk of signing Deandre Jordan is making me really uncomfortable. I'm sorry, but with the exception of Chris Paul, no 2015 Clippers are allowed on the Lakers. I don't want our team catching loser.
You must have really hated the Paul Gasol signing then? He was 0-12 in the playoffs before he came here...
Eh. This is a case where I don't buy the numbers compared to what my eyes tell me. Those numbers say Ed Davis, Robin Lopez, and Brandan Wright are better post players. C'mon. That's ridiculous. I love Davis and Lopez, but they're at best competent post players. There's only so many players given the opportunity to post the ball 400+ times and Monroe is one of them for a reason. His numbers aren't middle of the pack. Put those in order of how many touches they actually get and he absolutely holds his own.
Then you DEFINITELY don't want Chris Paul! Zing! Paul needs an alpha male scorer to win a title which means he ain't winning one until Blake Griffin is ready. If a guy needs an alpha male scorer... I'd rather go get the alpha male scorer first!
That's why I posted possessions. Sometimes the numbers could be an aberration. In this case with Monroe, he's middle of the pack defensively, his PPP on post-ups is middle of the pack, and he only rates high in 1 category which is transition. If you're going in that direction, Gasol and Aldridge are you best options. Hell, even Brook Lopez is way more efficient than Monroe, and he's going to be a free agent. Although, he has foot issues, and I wouldn't touch him...
Honestly, if it came down too it, and I had to make a choice; I would trade Paul. Sell high on him. He just came off one of his best regular seasons statistically, played in every regular season game, and you'd have the ability to surround yourself with a much more balanced team and build around Blake and Jordan.
Seems DJ/CP3 weren't the only troubled pairing heading into free agency. Butler and Rose can be added to the list. Bernstein: Derrick Rose/Jimmy Butler Tension Marred Game 6 « CBS Chicago (via http://ble.ac/teamstream-) http://teamstre.am/1LdYbWq
Again, those are just the numbers that don't match my eye test. It takes more than just looking at PPP to develop a read on a player. My desire to sign Monroe is based off a long list of things: 1. Again, middle of the pack is just wrong when it comes to Monroe in the post. He's a very good post player which is evidenced by how often his team trusts him in the post. How many other players in the league get the same number of post up opportunities that he does? Three. Marc Gasol, Brook Lopez, and Roy Hibbert. Hibbert was born of necessity because George went down. So you're telling me that he's given the ball in the post the third most times in the league and he's just an average post player? Of course not. Just like Kobe's shooting efficiency and usage rate being low and high respectively are not good indicators for whether or not he should be given the ball to create offense. Greg Monroe is a very good post player. 2. We need a post player and there's only a few available. Marc Gasol is probably not coming here. We probably won't get lucky enough to get Jahlil Okafor in the draft. So what's the next option? Brook Lopez? Too injury prone. Al Jefferson? Also injury prone and much older than Greg Monroe. Monroe becomes one of the few really attainable post players in the league. The NBA might be more guard oriented than it used to be, but post players are ALWAYS going to be valuable assets. 3. I readily acknowledge that Monroe isn't a perfect player. I'm not so blind as to say he'd come here and be the perfect fit. He's an inconsistent rebounder, he's not a rim protector, and those are two really important areas for us to improve on. He IS however only going to be 25 when the season starts, is a healthy player with pretty low risk of injury given his playing style, and he's relatively obtainable unlike other marquee free agents. Aldridge and Gasol are older and unlikely to want to be part of a rebuild. DeAndre Jordan couldn't create offense in the post if his life depended on it. Hibbert is alright and honestly is probably pretty available, but the eye test says he's hit his ceiling. 4. At 24-almost-25 years old Greg Monroe still has room to grow. He'll never be a rim protector like DeAndre, but he could be a better team defender if he finds the right city to play in. He might never be Pau Gasol in his prime, but he's capable of being a 18/8/4 guy with a block a game and that's really damn good. Especially if you can do it while playing 72+ games a year. 5. Putting a 25 year old Center next to a 21 year old PF next to a 23 year old PG/SG and ANOTHER 20 year old kid anywhere else is really building for the future. 6. A max contract to Monroe starts at under 17 million which leaves us plenty of room to continue filling out the roster. 7. Having another reliable offensive weapon puts less pressure on Kobe and could lead to not only greater team success, but another year or two of our old captain. 8. Size always matters in the NBA and Monroe might not be the tallest or most athletic, but he's built well at 6'11" and 250 pounds. I could go on, but the point is there's plenty of great reasons to sign him. There's plenty of reasons why he's still high on my list of Centers. I would understand signing Gasol, Aldridge, or Jordan ahead of him but calling him middle of the pack is just wrong.
Agreed completely. They'd be better off with Collison and a bench than Paul and no bench. It's time to start building around Griffin. Unfortunately for them (and I've got to admit I love it), Jordan could leave this summer which would close the window they've had. They'd need to work hard to reopen that window.
1. Again, middle of the pack is just wrong when it comes to Monroe in the post. He's a very good post player which is evidenced by how often his team trusts him in the post. How many other players in the league get the same number of post up opportunities that he does? Three. Marc Gasol, Brook Lopez, and Roy Hibbert. Hibbert was born of necessity because George went down. So you're telling me that he's given the ball in the post the third most times in the league and he's just an average post player? Of course not. Just like Kobe's shooting efficiency and usage rate being low and high respectively are not good indicators for whether or not he should be given the ball to create offense. Greg Monroe is a very good post player. He gets those post up opportunities partly because Detroit's offense in the halfcourt relies on him being a threat from that position. Their 3-point shooting (Detroit) is suspect and the acquisition of Jackson didn't help matters at all. If you take a look at the numbers, he also doesn't rank highly in cutting or rolling to the hoop; he opts to post-up rather than doing those others things; although that could be scheme depending or he's just not good at it. Stan Van Gundy does run a lot of pick in roll, so while that could be misleading, I tend too think he just doesn't cut, spot-up, or roll to the rim or even work himself in a pick in pop situation very well. Well, his post game could be deemed above average, it's still not a very efficient way to get points in the half court, teams usually invite the post-up since it's much like a mid-range shot, and his post game isn't could enough to get away without doing those other things well. Marc Gasol and Brook Lopez are just better post players period. Hibbert is debatable. Though, I'd probably favor Monroe. 2. We need a post player and there's only a few available. Marc Gasol is probably not coming here. We probably won't get lucky enough to get Jahlil Okafor in the draft. So what's the next option? Brook Lopez? Too injury prone. Al Jefferson? Also injury prone and much older than Greg Monroe. Monroe becomes one of the few really attainable post players in the league. The NBA might be more guard oriented than it used to be, but post players are ALWAYS going to be valuable assets. I agree with the post players are always going to be more valuable assets; when they do it efficiently. Monroe doesn't his 0.87 PPP should speak to that. So, well, he's middle of the pack offensively, and he doesn't do other things well on offense beside posting and defense isn't good enough to offset that, why should we pursue him? I'd pursue other avenues besides Monroe. I know his age is a good thing, but I'm still not sold and have come away when I seen him to be very underwhelming...agree to disagree on this one...
