2015 Nba Draft Discussion: Russell, Nance Jr., Brown

Discussion in 'Lakers Discussion' started by LaVarBallsDad, Oct 14, 2014.

Page 71 of 287
  1. lakerfan2

    lakerfan2 - Lakers All Star -

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2014
    Messages:
    5,220
    Likes Received:
    10,105
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Simi Valley
    Offline
    lol. Okafor doesn't even scratch the surface of Shaq in terms of dominance. Shaq was pure strength and athleticism that NO ONE could match. He wasn't the most skilled big, but he used his size to his advantage. Shaq was also good shot blocker and rebounder, something Jahlil isn't adpet to. Okafor's ceiling is Duncan, and that's just offensively. Okafor doesn't have the jumper just yet, but his fundamentals are there in the post.

    I didn't really ask if you'd take Okafor or Deandre. I just said, imagine if Deandre had those extra skills, he'd be a 25 and 15 player every game, but he's not.
     
    lakerfan2, Mar 25, 2015
    #1401
  2. tada

    tada - Lakers All Star -

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2014
    Messages:
    4,467
    Likes Received:
    8,535
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    Yeah that worries me too. His legs are like twigs and he is athletic but not very coordinated.
     
    tada, Mar 25, 2015
    #1402
  3. TIME

    TIME Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    5,788
    Likes Received:
    22,653
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Lifelong Lakers fan.
    Location:
    LaLa Land
    Offline
    You just jumped the left shark.
     
    TIME, Mar 25, 2015
    #1403
    Battle Tested20, ElginTheGreat and therealdeal like this.
  4. Savory Griddles

    Savory Griddles Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2014
    Messages:
    9,152
    Likes Received:
    22,367
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    OK. I like Okafor over Towns, but Okafor will not be Shaq on the offensive end. The Big Fella was a top 3 center all time. If they called fouls fairly with Shaq, even with his atrocious FT% he would have averaged 10 ppg more. I mean, let's not forget how insane Shaq was in his prime. He made gigantic men look like peons.
     
    Savory Griddles, Mar 25, 2015
    #1404
    therealdeal likes this.
  5. tada

    tada - Lakers All Star -

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2014
    Messages:
    4,467
    Likes Received:
    8,535
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    I didn't say he was going to become Shaq, I said 'as dominant as Shaq' which means efficiency. It doesn't matter how he does it, as long as it gets in the bucket.

    Remember, he is only 19. Have you compared his FG% to Duncan and Shaq as freshmen? It is quite evident his ceiling is much higher than Duncan offensively. Probably not defensively though.
     
    tada, Mar 25, 2015
    #1405
  6. Savory Griddles

    Savory Griddles Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2014
    Messages:
    9,152
    Likes Received:
    22,367
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    No. Still no. You could make the argument that Shaq was the most dominant player in history on the offensive end.

    And I'm totally on your side in this argument of Okafor vs. Towns.
     
    Savory Griddles, Mar 25, 2015
    #1406
    therealdeal likes this.
  7. tada

    tada - Lakers All Star -

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2014
    Messages:
    4,467
    Likes Received:
    8,535
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    I think it's a matter of perception. Shaq looked like a man among boys, brushing off defenders like flies. But when you break down his stats, in his best (00-01) season, he averaged 28pts while shooting 57%. I believe Okafor can average those numbers in his prime, without the need to overpower his opponents.
     
    tada, Mar 25, 2015
    #1407
  8. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2014
    Messages:
    28,475
    Likes Received:
    62,061
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    It's just a really tough comparison to make man. Shaq played a different game than anyone else. You might get away more with comparing him to Hakeem in 94 or Duncan in 02 or maybe even Pau in that 07 season before he came to LA.

    I don't know if I could see Okafor scoring 28 ppg with that kind of efficiency. I think Okafor tops out probably around 23/12 with a block and a steal on 53% in 35 minutes per game. That's GREAT by the way. Those are MVP type of numbers if his team is winning. I think that's about as great as he can be.

    Shaq took 83% of his shots within 3 feet meaning he dunked everything. I don't think Okafor has that kind of strength. He'll be more like Duncan or Pau and work at finding angles to score at.
     
    therealdeal, Mar 25, 2015
    #1408
    tada and Savory Griddles like this.
  9. Savory Griddles

    Savory Griddles Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2014
    Messages:
    9,152
    Likes Received:
    22,367
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    Yes, but Shaq did that while being double and triple teamed because you really had no choice. If Okafor is doubled, it will be because the defender isn't good enough. A really good defender can defend Okafor and slow him down. Shaq needed to be doubled because you could not defend him one on one no matter how good a defender you were.
     
    Savory Griddles, Mar 25, 2015
    #1409
  10. lakerfan2

    lakerfan2 - Lakers All Star -

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2014
    Messages:
    5,220
    Likes Received:
    10,105
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Simi Valley
    Offline
    Right now, Okafor falls into the Al Jefferson category of players. A skilled offensive big man with limited defensive presence. Although, I think Okafor will play a game closer to the basket and be more efficient, but that's where he currently sits.

    Towns looks like Bynum before he got injured. A big with defensive instincts, limited post moves. Towns is a little more mobile than Bynum is laterally, and is more focused on that end than Bynum was.
     
    lakerfan2, Mar 25, 2015
    #1410
    Battle Tested20 likes this.
  11. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2014
    Messages:
    28,475
    Likes Received:
    62,061
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    The one thing I think Okafor will do differently (and better) from Shaq is that he's already great at passing out of double-teams. I you surrounded him with three shooters and a cutter, I think he could average up to 5 assists a game. Assuming of course he's your Dirk Nowitzki and he's always got the ball in the half-court sets.

    I've seen him get doubled and he just observes the floor and passes out of it. He's really difficult to double consistently. Once he starts moving the ball around, the defense is in scramble mode and Duke scores. I think that's a translatable skill to the NBA.
     
    therealdeal, Mar 25, 2015
    #1411
    tada and shoe like this.
  12. ElginTheGreat

    ElginTheGreat - Lakers MVP -

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2014
    Messages:
    10,813
    Likes Received:
    29,961
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    I switch between Okafor and Towns like every week. At this point, I will be pretty content with either. There will be a lot of talk as the tournament goes along and guys start declaring, but I don't think anyone has done enough to really take the top spot from Okafor.
     
    ElginTheGreat, Mar 25, 2015
    #1412
    therealdeal likes this.
  13. JSM

    JSM - Lakers Legend -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    17,643
    Likes Received:
    68,481
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    I know my comparison, but wanted to get the general concensus of those here.

    What's your NBA ceiling for Towns? If everything bounces the right way for the kid, he stays injury free, who do you think he can compare to?

    (There's a follow up after you guys weigh in)
     
    JSM, Mar 25, 2015
    #1413
  14. lakerfan2

    lakerfan2 - Lakers All Star -

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2014
    Messages:
    5,220
    Likes Received:
    10,105
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Simi Valley
    Offline
    Wouldn't this have applied to Wiggins/Parker as well?

    Wiggins might not be the same top heavy player Towns is, but he's quite athleticism reliant, and his shot hasn't really been there for him. Parker, on the other hand, seemed to be the safer bet being the fundamental, all-around player, despite his conditioning concerns. Parker went down despite seeming to have a good base and being a high IQ player.

    It's been said before, but the draft is always a crapshoot, but it's always good to do get background on these guys.
     
    lakerfan2, Mar 25, 2015
    #1414
  15. lakerfan2

    lakerfan2 - Lakers All Star -

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2014
    Messages:
    5,220
    Likes Received:
    10,105
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Simi Valley
    Offline
    In a year, I think Towns can be pre-injury Bynum. That athletic, big kid with the ability to anchor a team defensively. Basic post moves, but they are effective because of his size, length, leaping ability, and soft touch. Sounds much like Bynum. BUT, his commitment on defense is something Bynum never had consistently, which I think is his calling card. Good stroke from the FT line can extend his range out offensively, Bynum also could hit his FT's.

    I've heard ceilings of Anthony Davis, although, I think Towns is bigger and more interior oriented than Davis is as Davis is more mobile.
     
    lakerfan2, Mar 25, 2015
    #1415
  16. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2014
    Messages:
    28,475
    Likes Received:
    62,061
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    Wiggins is a thinner kid, but he's very muscular. He reminds me a little bit of a bigger version of Westbrook in that way. Garnett was this way. Cooper from back in the 80s was similar. Skinny and athletic doesn't always mean you're prone to injury. If you're skinny but have a lot of wiry muscle, you're not necessarily prone to injury. You might be prone to injury from outside sources since you're too skinny to fight back against someone else's force, but not necessarily prone to injury within yourself. Wiggins is a super athlete, but he doesn't necessarily lean on it.

    Parker was pudgy actually. He needs to lose weight. He's closer to Towns than Wiggins is.

    It's not just the size I'm referring to. It's whether your top half of your body is too big for your bottom half. Your legs and hips are far, far more important to work out than your upper body because they do more for you. You lift with them, you move with them, you plant and jump and land with them. They give you stability and power. Most of these guys though go to the gym and work on their shoulders, their back, and their chest.

    Look at Towns' legs. They're visibly under developed. He needs to do some squats, some deadlifts, some lunges, some balance exercises. I'm not saying he WILL get hurt, just that if he doesn't start training properly he'll have a propensity for it.
     
    therealdeal, Mar 25, 2015
    #1416
  17. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2014
    Messages:
    28,475
    Likes Received:
    62,061
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    Ceiling I think for him is probably Noah with maybe some better offense. Bynum is a decent comparison too.
     
    therealdeal, Mar 25, 2015
    #1417
  18. Punk-101

    Punk-101 - Lakers Starter -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    2,864
    Likes Received:
    7,842
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    Towns' ceiling, imo is Bynum's post game with a better jumper out to 3pt range, but a much better and willing passer out of double teams, while not being a headcase or unmotivated like Bynum could be. + Noah on defense and rebounding hustle.
    Bynum+vlade+Noah+rasheed Wallace hybrid.
     
    Punk-101, Mar 25, 2015
    #1418
  19. Savory Griddles

    Savory Griddles Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2014
    Messages:
    9,152
    Likes Received:
    22,367
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    Yeah. I'm thinking Noah too.

    Okafor is Al Jefferson right away, better jefferson later.
    That could be the best player in NBA history. lol
     
    Savory Griddles, Mar 25, 2015
    #1419
    therealdeal likes this.
  20. ElginTheGreat

    ElginTheGreat - Lakers MVP -

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2014
    Messages:
    10,813
    Likes Received:
    29,961
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    I can't think of a player I would compare Towns to straight up. He has a unique combination of skills on both ends of the floor. I suppose I can go along with calling him the player Bynum was supposed to end up being.
     
    ElginTheGreat, Mar 25, 2015
    #1420
Page 71 of 287

Share This Page