2015 Nba Draft Discussion: Russell, Nance Jr., Brown

B+ is very good. I'm not saying he's a bad ball handler, I'm saying against NBA level defense he won't be as fancy. At least not right away. Mudiay is like Exum, but he's not. He didn't play in the Australian League he played in the CBA which is one of the best international leagues there is. I think if he was in the tournament he'd be getting just as much love as Russell (although for different things).

 

Okay I can't even take this lol

How the heck can you say that honestly? Has Russell played a second of NBA basketball? Ginobili is a career 36.9% shooter from outside (tops out at 41.3%) in the NBA. Those are very good numbers. Russell is 42% in the Big 10 with a college three point line. There's no honest way you can say Russell is a better shooter than Ginobili in the NBA.

Mudiay has nothing that is even close to Wall, huh? But Russell is a better shooter than Ginobili in the NBA. Okay. It's not like they both are heralded for their speed and ability to get to the rim. It's not like Mudiay is terrific in the open court. It's not like both lack(ed) an outside shot at this junction in their careers. It's not like Mudiay is known for his speed in the open floor. It's not like either (will) enter the NBA with questionable focus and defensive effort.

Honestly at this point it's becoming obvious that you don't know Mudiay so you're judging him negatively. Larry Brown compares him to Wall. NBAdraft.net comares him to Wall. If you don't want to see the comparisons it's because you like Russell more than him, but don't try to tell me he's not even remotely close to Wall without doing a little more research.

The same will be true for Russell as far as getting to the rim at the NBA level.

No the key phrase is "in the NBA" which is more than can be said for about 90%-95% of the competition that Russell has faced. Russell is playing right now against guys that aren't NBA level competition, so what's the difference? Because these guys are Chinese they're somehow inferior? Or because they're not American they're inferior? The CBA is known as one of the most competitive leagues in the world outside of Europe and the NBA. Not every American becomes a prolific scorer and the mere fact that SOME do AND THAT MUDIAY WAS AMONG THEM AT AGE 19 shows you that the kid has NBA level talent RIGHT NOW. A 19 year old kid went toe-to-toe with people who have ACTUALLY PLAYED IN THE NBA, even if they're over the hill now or were considered "busts" or what have you. For instance one of his teammates was Will Bynum who also played well. Will Bynum is an NBA journeyman. Who on Russell's team RIGHT NOW is an NBA journeyman? I'd love to know if you think Sam Thompson or Trey McDonald or Anthony Lee will have an NBA career even like Will Bynum?

And what will be the excuse of just about all the Big 10 NCAA athletes about why they can't even make it into the NBA?

NCAA stars become effective players in the NBA? Really? All of them do? The ones that score 20 or more points?

Nik Stauskas, Doug McDermott, Tyler Ennis, Jimmer Fredette, Erick Green, Reggie Hamilton, Aubrey Coleman, Reggie Williams, Adam Morrison, Keydren Clark, Sean May, etc etc etc etc

For goodness' sake the NCAA is not the only organization capable of producing NBA players. Have many stars come out of the CBA? No, but I wouldn't make that ridiculous claim. The CBA is a very competitive league that's WHY so many NBA players end up there (that and the money).

If you like Russell more than Mudiay that's fine, there's plenty of good arguments for that. The arguments you're making though are not among those.

 

You can't seriously think these players wouldn't absolutely dominate the NCAA do you? Gilbert Arenas scored 60 points in the NBA. What do you think he'd do to some schmuck from Ohio State? Tracy McGrady was an MVP candidate and a scoring champion. Stephon Marbury was electric.

You have an incredibly skewed view of the NCAA my friend.

Don't forget Mudiay is 19 years old, a rookie, and was hurt for over a month in a short season. You're much too quick to write him off.

 

Okay fine, say he's a shooter. You want to call him Curry 2.0, what about Fredette 2.0? Or Morrison 2.0? Or Randy Foye 2.0?

And you base that off of what? Those comparisons come from professional scouts and analysts. I'm going to side with them over you. Not to mention if all you're seeing is athleticism, you're clearly not looking hard enough. Mudiay isn't as fast as Wall or as explosive as Westbrook or as acrobatic as Rose. His GAME is very much like all of them though and he's much bigger than any of those guys. Mudiay is 6'5" while those other players are closer to 6'2". Mudiay's athleticism might not be on their level, but his game is certainly modeled after them and he's a hell of a lot more athletic than Russell.

I would probably respect his opinion a little more than any one of us even so.

Mudiay's strength is his pick-and-roll ability coupled with his athleticism. Mudiay is a better PG than Russell is. Russell is a SG with very good vision. The point though is that Russell could very well struggle to create his own shots at the next level. I don't have that fear with Mudiay. He might not be able to make the jumper consistently at first, but I believe he'll be able to create and get to the rim whenever he needs to. Russell's lack of explosiveness could mean he's relegated to catching and shooting more often than dribbling and finding open spots on the floor for himself or others.

And I gave you a half a dozen examples of how that's just not true. There's a reason kids bust every single season in the NBA. Being great in college is not always a good indicator of being great in the NBA. Same goes for any professional sport.

 

MOST OF THE PLAYERS IN THE NCAA ARE NOT EVEN D-LEAGUE TALENT

 

I disagree. I say we get a pool of jello for you two to settle this in.

 

That's fine, I just can't come to terms with the fact we're so disconnected here. For instance here's a list of Russell's teammates. None of them are going to post what Mudiay did in the CBA and none of them are as good as an old Stephon Marbury.

The overall competition of the CBA is a little higher than the NCAA because there's actual players that have been in the NBA before. Most players in the NCAA won't get there. There's tiers here that I don't think we're seeing eye to eye on.

Collegiate -----> International -----------> NBA

That's the progression. Why? Because out of the 15 players on an NCAA Tournament team, maybe 2 of them play a game in the NBA. Of the 13 more players, maybe 3-4 of them play international basketball. The 9-10 remaining players are not even good enough to play in the CBA, the D-League, or any other respectable and reputable professional organization. They might play in the European B or C teams, but most of the time they go on to have careers elsewhere.

Now the worst person on a CBA team may or may not be as good as the worst person on an NCAA tournament team, but that's not really the point. The point is that the highest levels of the CBA have BEEN to the NBA already and have faced elite competition and have played against the best players... Marbury even at that age has played against Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Kevin Garnett... D'Angelo Russell has played against Terran Pettaway, Keifer Sykes, and RJ Hunter.

It's fine though. If you like Russell more that's no big deal. There's plenty to like. I just think the reports on him have all been glowing and I'm not sure I see it.

 

There is a 2 foreign player per team rule. There's 20 teams. Beasley was also a college star and would at this stage in his career rock the NCAA.

 

But that's taking away the team's best players. The best players in China (mostly not the Chinese players) are better than the best players in the NCAA. By far actually. That's been my point all along. Even an old, over the hill Marbury is better than at least 70% of those NCAA kids, probably more. The best player on an NCAA team is usually not going to be the best player on one of those Chinese teams. For example Beasley was what the 3rd pick in the draft and played in the NBA? How many players in the Big 10 will be that guy? Russell is it and he's not as good as Beasley is right now.

Also keep in mind the schedule of that CBA is ridiculous. For 2.5 months they play 4 games a week. Then the playoffs start. It's pretty crazy.

Anyway, re: Russell vs. Mudiay. I still want Mudiay over Russell. Russell has proven to me that he's worth our 5th pick, but other than that I'd want Johnson, Mudiay, Towns, and Okafor ahead of him no question. Cauley-Stein has a shot to knock him out of the 5th spot, but it's not close right now.