Star Wars Thread (a Galaxy Far Far Away) Obi-Wan Movie In The Works! (36)

We know. I've known Real and Weezy (on the board) for over a decade. I have diametrically opposing views on most of The Last Jedi with them. Doesn't make me like them any less. It's one thing to dislike the movie and disagree, but in the end, it's just a movie and art is like beauty, it's in the eyes of the beholder. Granted, The Last Jedi is less like art and more like dumpster fire outside a liposuction clinic.

 

Come to the dark side guys.

https://www.cinemablend.com/news/23...ce=fbk&utm_term=cb-fbk-m-us-b15d46f9.p9s8c5hb

 

Interesting. Tell me more.

 

Only liking because it's civilized Star Wars talk. I just can't trust the larger sites like Cinemablend, Screenrant, Collider, etc. though. With Disney's history of banning publications from premieres and the fact that these sites are dependent on staying in the good graces of the Mouse House, their reviews are a tad suspect. I have just noticed that there seems to be a divide between the websites and channels that are trying to generate money and the people who just are on Youtube giving opinions.

Sites like Screenrant even take it so far as to post articles with click bait titles that are guaranteed to stir up the anti-TLJ crowd. Our media is only concerned with generating eyeballs. I watch Kristian Harloff try to walk a tightrope between saying he likes The Last Jedi, but always sure to point out it has a lot of things he dislikes. It sucks because the conflict of interest these days in the entertainment media is so obvious, you don't know who to trust. It used to be that large newspapers like the LA Times, NY Times or Rolling Stones magazine would give their reviews, and you knew they were likely fair and unbiased because the publication wasn't dependent on that portion of it's paper to drive all it's income.

 

Whatever this means, it's not a good joke.

 

Alright. Let's get to this.


I would argue that if you watch TFA and TLJ back to back, they're 100% in line with one another. The only reason there is a perception of loose fitting story telling is because of the expectations built up over two years asking questions that ultimately weren't important. Whose fault is that? Ours and JJ Abrams. It has nothing to do with the quality of TLJ as a film and the direction the story is going (the correct direction).

1. Who is Snoke? It's a decent question, but it doesn't matter. Snoke isn't important to the story, Kylo Ren is. The fact that Abrams made A New Hope v.2.0 means we are left with another shadowy Emperor figure. What's the best way to keep the story fresh? Do away with that character and concept. His function in this story was to affect Kylo and once that happens, Snoke doesn't matter. What is the most interesting thing to do with Kylo? Cut him loose of the chains that Vader had.

2. Who is Tekka? That question never really mattered at all. He died in the first movie having served his purpose to the story.

3. How did they get Luke's lightsaber? Again another question that JJ Abrams should have answered and didn't because that's what Abrams does. He loves creating open ended questions and letting someone else (or the audience) fill in the blanks. The answer to this question should have been given in TFA if at all and does it actually matter? That's a question other forms of canon can easily fill in. A Maz Kanata book for example.

4. Who are Rey's parents? You nailed it with this one: it doesn't matter and no one. Who was Anakin's father? Does it matter? Watch Episode 4 again and pretend like it's the only Star Wars movie that'll ever exist. Who are Luke's parents? Does it matter? Of course not. You don't have to be somebody to have the Force. You don't have to be a Skywalker to be strong in the Force (it helps). Was Yoda a Skywalker? Was Palpatine? Who are their parents? It doesn't matter.

Now as for this not fitting in with the story, I'd argue you should re-watch Episode 7 again. Maz Kanata already tells Rey that whoever she's waiting for on Jakku isn't coming back. Rey starts crying, she knows it already. Her parents are nobodies and abandoned her. She runs away from this truth. It's too difficult to bear. Everyone who wanted her to be a Solo or Skywalker was willing to accept that our heroes would abandon their child on a backwater like that? Or the stretch of her being a Kenobi when the films have never explored a sexual or romantic relationship with Obi-Wan through 6 films? Were we really expecting Episode 8 to discuss Obi-Wan's affair for 15-20 minutes and then his children's story and then how Rey somehow got abandoned by Kenobi's family? That's awful.

The best story to tell is that she is nobody. She's exactly what Luke was before we all knew Episode 5 existed: a nobody from nowhere who can still be special on her own merits.

5. What's Finn's role in this story? You must not have been paying close enough attention to his arc in either film so far. In TFA and at the beginning of TLJ, Finn is a coward. He's running away from everything and trying to escape. The only reason he fights at all in Episode 7 is to save the only friend in the galaxy he feels he has in Rey. That's his only concern. Through Rose and their journey to Vegas ( ), he discovers that there's more to life than running and that there are things worth fighting for. He takes this lesson to heart so much that he is willing to die for the Resistance on a suicide mission that might save his friends. He becomes a true hero and is now going to be a staple in the Resistance fight.

6. What has Luke been up to? I mean... did you actually watch the movie? He created a new Jedi Temple and it was destroyed. He then lost his nephew to the Dark Side and has since run away (like all of his Jedi heroes). These last two questions seem like questions that should have been answered if you'd watched the movie.

7. How did Kylo get Vader's mask? Why does this matter at all? He went to Endor's moon and dug it out of the remains that Luke had left. Maybe Luke saved it and Kylo stole it from him after he destroyed the Temple. Honestly it's not important in the slightest.

8. How did Kylo fall to the Dark Side? Again: did you watch the movie? Snoke poisoned his mind. It was said repeatedly in both movies. Once by Han and Leia and again by Luke. All three of them were saddened that they weren't able to catch it in time.

Okay so you didn't watch the movie then. Snoke did corrupt Ben. It was said repeatedly. Also, Snoke is not a Sith and neither is Kylo Ren. They never said the word Sith in the movie, they don't have the telltale eyes that a Sith would have, they're not Sith. They said multiple times that Snoke pulled Kylo Ren to the Dark Side. I mean really they spell it out in dialogue that leaves no question.

This is 100% incorrect. Watch the movies back to back, now knowing what actually happens by reading my post, and tell me again how the two movies don't mesh. Forget the fan fiction that spread between the two movies and just watch them for what they are. The two stories match up perfectly fine, they just don't give you the answers that fans on the internet came up with for two years. The story works completely fine in the time frame allotted. You can criticize the direction the story went if you don't like it, but the movie is objectively a great movie. Every main character has an arch. There are no wasted scenes or wasted moments. There's a message that is meant to be delivered through each character's arch. More importantly it does what a good middle-of-the-trilogy movie does: it furthers the story in a way that is interesting and unique and creates stakes for the finale. From a film perspective, it's a very well made film.

For the record, I don't think the movie is perfect. I would have eliminated the casino entirely and instead made DJ someone that Rose had kept from escaping the Resistance early in the movie. You can have the same arch basically with Rose/Finn/DJ and even have DJ betray them at the end which would make it so much worse, but you could shave probably 10-15 minutes off there and instead use that time to develop the Snoke/Luke/Kylo story a little more. Show me the history of Snoke/Luke's interactions and then maybe show me how Snoke was able to poison Ben into Kylo. I think that would have worked better and saved us from the "rich people suck" narrative that I didn't think fit with the rest of the story (or really any SW story told thus far). However, the characterizations that they presented to us were still well within a cohesive narrative and the film itself was well made and well executed.

As for movie rankings the definitive-can't-argue-with rankings are:

1. Empire Strikes Back
2. A New Hope
3. The Last Jedi

4. The Force Awakens
5. Rogue One

6. Return of the Jedi




7. Revenge of the Sith








8. Phantom Menace
















9. The Holiday Special
10. Attack of the Clones

 

I think I'm getting it now...You're referring to whether or not you choose to take Revan light or dark? I went all the way both ways and then played one time through answering all the questions the way I would actually answer them in real life and came out almost right down the middle.

If we're talking SWTOR, I played with a Zabrak Inquisitor Healer and an Imperial Agent Sniper.

 

This is for me, the best trailer/tv spot/footage I’ve seen so far. I laughed a couple times, I got the vibe of the movie better. Keeps feeling to me like more Chewbacca = good stuff. Not sold on the rest, but I’m liking seeing more Imperial involvement, and jokes like the one of Han showing Chewie his cards and the reaction feel like Han and Chewie to me finally.

 

I'm still in it honestly. I don't have any real expectations, but it looks like a fun little romp of a movie.

 

I'll see you back in here next winter after 9 comes out and everyone says "THIS was better than TLJ!" for about a week until they realize TLJ helped feed the narrative of that movie.

On a real note, I'm sorry that you didn't like the movie, but it isn't garbage. It's a very well made movie even if you didn't like the narrative decisions.

 

It's not a well made movie. Well made movies don't have pointless plot lines like the Canto Blight-on-the-Star-Wars-Universe side quest. If you want to argue that it was technically well executed from an effects and cinematography standpoint, then I can get with you on that. It was beautifully shot. But that being said, narrative decisions is what the lion's share of being a well made movie is, so...not sure how one can argue it was well made when the story stunk. Once again, it is strictly your opinion it was a well made movie as narrative decisions are decisions like any other. If I chose to use Microsoft paint to draw in the lightsabers, that's a bad decision just like having that guy that looked like Luke Skywalker pretend to be Luke Skywalker.

And unless JJ retcons 8 and makes the Luke on that island a clone, Episode 8 has done irreparable damage to the Star Wars universe. No matter where they take shallow characters like Rey and Finn, Star Wars ended with Episode 6. The rest is just s***** fan fiction like you would find on a Star Wars message board.

I'm done now.

 

Wrong. I'll post later on a computer but this is all basically wrong. I'm impressed in your wrongness.

 

Well made movies have pointless things all the time. What was the reasoning for the meteor worm in Episode 5? But more importantly, Canto Bite wasn't meaningless at all. It's primary service was to grow Finn's character so that he understands right from wrong and sees the galaxy from a more macro basis than simply what's happening around him and about him. Without Canto Bite, Finn doesn't mean anything to the Resistance. Of course, I'd have done this differently, but it certainly isn't pointless. That's just incorrect.

The story was brilliant. Hate to break it to you, but when every major character experiences a unique and resounding arch, that is good storytelling. It's what makes Civil War a good movie despite a large cast and it's what makes Last Jedi interesting as well.

Finn- learns to be a hero. Rey- learns to rely on herself. Poe- learns to be a leader. Luke- learns to let go of his failures. Kylo- learns how to be the powerful being he wants to be. They all experience things narratively that drive those lessons forward. Without Canto Bite, Finn doesn't care about the Resistance and about making the galaxy a better place. Without Luke and Kylo, Rey doesn't learn how to be her own person and carve her own path. Without Leia and Holdo, Poe doesn't learn to be the leader the Resistance needs him to be. Without Rey and Snoke, Kylo doesn't step into the most powerful role in the galaxy. The movie is technically a masterpiece and just because you don't appreciate where the story is going, doesn't make it a bad story.

It's strictly my opinion... as well as many fans I've spoken to and 91% of film/movie critics. I am not alone in my analysis and I take great comfort in knowing that Episode 5 was actually critically panned and misunderstood by fans. This is no different. The middle movie of a designed trilogy is supposed to leave you feeling uncomfortable as the conclusion is supposed to be satisfying. I wasn't sure how I felt about the movie after my first viewing, but the longer I've considered the more I've come to appreciate it for what it is. It will go down as one of the best Star Wars movies ever made.

Your opinion that the movie wasn't good is just as much an opinion as my own and I'm sorry you feel that way. It doesn't take anything from me feeling firmly that you are wrong and you will not convince me otherwise. By the way, Luke is exactly as he should have been. Yoda warned him in Episode 5: Once you take steps down the path to the Dark Side, it stays with you forever. He is tainted by how close he came to the Dark Side. He isn't some saint. He isn't some paragon of goodness. This is the same character that choke murdered the Gamorean guards at Jabba's Palace. This is the same Luke that came within seconds of murdering his own father. A half-second of darkness towards his nephew is nothing compared to what we've already seen. Him being despondent on a lonely planet is indicative of the Jedi's failure, not just Luke's. He is an extension of the Jedi that taught him and they fled when the world needed them too. Obi-Wan and Yoda could have taken out the Emperor together and they didn't. They fled to nowhere and let billions suffer while they withered away and died. Luke is a Jedi and the Jedi failed. He failed too. His life's work came crashing down and he possibly lost his family along with it. And yet when the time came, Luke did the most Luke thing imaginable: he succeeded against all odds and created a spark of hope for the galaxy again. This was the single greatest feat we've ever seen from any Force user in any movie thus far. This was the most Luke version of Luke I could imagine; far better than the demi-god Luke from the EU who was capable of literally anything.

This movie saved shallow characters from being shallow. It gave them depth and meaning and purpose. And as much as you complain, I'll put money down you see Episode 9 when it comes out next year. Hell I'll wager a movie ticket on it. This story is ripe for conclusion and this movie was far better than all the awful fan fiction we read for 2 years between 7 and 8 that's for sure. Rey a Kenobi? Yikes.