2019/20 Players' Transactions: Breaking News , Trades, Free Agents, And Rumors

Discussion in 'Lakers Discussion' started by LaVarBallsDad, Jan 5, 2017.

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  1. Kenzo

    Kenzo - Lakers All Star -

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    Newsflash, we're trying to sign free agents, not trade for stars. Who says anything about trading the kids?
     
    Kenzo, Mar 27, 2018
    #7041
  2. sirronstuff

    sirronstuff - Lakers Legend -

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    I think it came up as a way to dump Deng so we had enough to be able to sign Randle. Dumping any of our young talent doesn't excite anyone I'm sure, but there is a price to acquire superstars, even if it's hidden or disguised as dumping a Deng. Or Denging a dump. Taking a Deng. I think you know where I'm going with this.

    [​IMG]
     
    sirronstuff, Mar 27, 2018
    #7042
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  3. Kenzo

    Kenzo - Lakers All Star -

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    Dung will be "dumpable" with two draft picks (one from Cle) and Zu or Bryant.
     
    Kenzo, Mar 27, 2018
    #7043
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  4. tada

    tada - Lakers All Star -

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    yeah as @sirronstuff posted so eloquently, there were talks of attaching Kuzma to a Deng dump package
     
    tada, Mar 27, 2018
    #7044
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  5. Savory Griddles

    Savory Griddles Moderator Staff Member

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    Offering Boogie the max might have us bidding against ourselves. I don't think anyone offers Boogie the max. It's debatable as to whether or not he was a max guy before the injury with his playoff history (obviously referring to his lack thereof) and his questionable attitude. Throw in the worst injury a basketball player can suffer, why offer that?
     
    Savory Griddles, Mar 27, 2018
    #7045
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  6. KareemtheGreat33

    KareemtheGreat33 - Lakers MVP -

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    Boogie I think is done. No one completely recovered from this injury... Maybe Cuz will be the first, who knows but I won't waste the max on him while he recovers.
     
    KareemtheGreat33, Mar 27, 2018
    #7046
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  7. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    That's a complete mischaracterization of my approach and wording it the way you are is purposely framing my argument to look worse to a casual observer.

    I am about winning a title as all Laker fans are I'm sure. That means exploring all avenues forward that make our team better. Therefore, rejecting someone like LeBron f***ing James for no reason other than he's a jerk is a foolish move. He's still the best player in the game right now. He's playing at a tremendous level and we'd be absolutely lucky to have him. It makes no sense passing on him if he's available and willing to come here. Let alone the fact that if he came, he'd likely bring Paul George with him and catapult us into contending for a ring now with very little cost to us. I've spent many hours outlining many avenues to which we could obtain those two players while not losing any major pieces, but if we had to lose one or two kids to make it happen, I'm not going to turn my back on it just because I like the kid. If I can build a team that will contend now and in the future (with Lonzo, Ingram, George, Randle, and LeBron), I'm not passing on that for some draft picks or because I like Kyle Kuzma and Josh Hart. I'm going to contend. That doesn't mean I'm eager to trade anybody at this point, but if I have to, I'm going to weigh my options. If trading Kyle Kuzma guarantees me 2-3 rings, I'm going to do it. End of story. I want 2-3 rings and I'll figure out the rest when it's time to do so.

    Of course, the way you frame the argument is like some sort of cheat code that conveniently forgets the history of our team and how we've defined our success. Shaq wasn't drafted here. Kareem and Pau were traded for. I suppose none of those rings hold the same weight as the rings from the 50s built around Mikan? That might be the only "natural" team we've built. When we acquired Kareem was he here just to build around Magic and Norm Nixon? When we signed Shaq was he here just to support Kobe and Eddie Jones and Nick Van Exel? When we traded for Pau using some solid assets, he was just another face and couldn't possibly infringe on our true franchise building block Andrew Bynum.

    I understand the impulse to keep the kids around and I'm in no hurry to move them, but I'm also not going to be derisive of fans who want more. Since when have the Lakers not wanted to build a superteam? Our Showtime team was every bit as stacked as these Warriors. We have no right to judge anyone on team makeup, especially ourselves.
     
    therealdeal, Mar 27, 2018
    #7047
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  8. vasashi17

    vasashi17 LB's Resident Capologist

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    Wait...wasn't Kobe, Pau, LO...without giving up Bynum, considered a superteam at the time?

    SAS had the number 1 overall pick in Duncan come along to join up with the Admiral on his way out. LA doesn't seem to have that vet on the roster for Jules/BI/Zo to get the keys from. Also, I love Jules, BI and Zo, but Duncan was at least a top 3 PF of all time type talent. Not to mention that Ginobili was a Euro vet stud before he became a "rookie" on SA.

    GSW built their current dynasty with their kids, but consider health as a primary directive here. Considering how many games Kuz, Zo, BI and Hart have missed this season and the medical history of Jules, it took a healthy Curry (coming off bum ankles), Klay and Dray to win their first chip from a depleted Cavs team. Then that young team added a FA during the cap bubble of 2016 and now they're world-beaters.

    Our approach is to fast-track our youth...not stun their growth. FAs this summer can be looked at as a quick fix, but I beg to differ. Every assembled team needs time to develop. Our very own Lakers saw a massive overhaul this last summer and our slow start heading into a brutal December paired with our youth and inexperience is what did us in....its not that we didn't start Randle from the jump. None of our starting lineup really played together before the beginning of the year. Year 1 of the super team in Miami struggled.....look at OKC still. You need to jump start our youth with guys that have played into late May and June. There is still going to be chemistry and development that has to take place, so lets push the turbo button (aka the #2018plan) and get this thing going.

    Our youth is promising, but not guaranteed. They have missed more games this season than Bron has missed in the last 6 seasons....TOTAL.

    You want a dynasty...you need stars and our young guys can potentially become that one day...but more than anything, you need proven talent that can stay healthy and a little bit of luck (ie Game 7 vs Blazers, Rob's "lacky shot", Fisher's 0.4, etc). So far our youth have all experienced growing pains, so there is no guarantee they can all remain healthy together at the same time. Then there's that little thing where none have really proven anything yet. Hey Jules, great 20-10 game again....but did you win?

    Bring in proven champions and that is the best way to develop our youth. That should be the priority...not crossing our fingers and waiting for potential to be realized.
     
    vasashi17, Mar 27, 2018
    #7048
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  9. LTLakerFan

    LTLakerFan - Lakers Legend -

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    Speaking of Boogie ....

    Is he on social media at all / anyone know news of how he is doing in his rehab? I wonder if Kobe shot him anything or if Boogie reached out to another current or past player with the same severe injury?
     
    LTLakerFan, Mar 27, 2018
    #7049
  10. gcclaker

    gcclaker Moderator Staff Member

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    Cousins probably did...just that neither are talking about it.
     
    gcclaker, Mar 27, 2018
    #7050
  11. tada

    tada - Lakers All Star -

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    @therealdeal @vasashi17

    Both of you bring up valid points, but our history of building championship teams is irrelevant to how teams are built today IMO. With the current CBA, building teams through the draft has become more important than ever. Adding an aging superstar by shedding young prospect(s) is not a healthy proposition IMO.

    And have you considered how young our kids are? Do you honestly think Lebron, George and our kids (minus Kuzma) could win a ring within 2-3 years? You guys are talking about adding a 34 year-old Lebron to kids that are 20-23. Their timelines don't mesh well. Our kids will ascend as Lebron descends. When GSW won their 1st title Curry was 27 years old, Klay was 25 and Draymond was 25. So just as Lebron's contract expires, our kids will be ready for contention. And we've lost a rising star (Kuzma) in the process. Hmm... that's just f'n great.

    Like I said, I don't mind adding stars at all, but not at the expense of our kids. You guys have different priorities which I understand as well, but we are on the opposite ends of this argument, so we can agree to disagree.
     
    tada, Mar 27, 2018
    #7051
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  12. revgen

    revgen - Lakers 6th Man -

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    Depends. Wes Mathews came back okay. Not as great a defender as he was in Portland, but still a solid role player.

    Cousins is a bigger player, so he has to carry more weight on the feet. He may not be able to be the all-star caliber player he used to be.
     
    revgen, Mar 27, 2018
    #7052
  13. johnnyboy

    johnnyboy - Lakers 6th Man -

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    True, but cousins' game isn't all that athletic. He will still be able to run the floor and score in the post, even with a bad achilles
     
    johnnyboy, Mar 27, 2018
    #7053
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  14. revgen

    revgen - Lakers 6th Man -

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    Brook Lopez is already doing that for us right now. And no achilles injury either.
     
    revgen, Mar 27, 2018
    #7054
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  15. Khmrp

    Khmrp - Lakers Legend -

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    If we only get pg, what do you guys think bout deng/19' 1st/byrant for Lin? 2 birds with 1 stone. Lin will expire n also offer that vet backup pg, his linsanity peak was when he was in an O like ours in ny. N no im not a lin fan lol
     
    Khmrp, Mar 28, 2018
    #7055
  16. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    Well actually there's little evidence that building through the draft is the way things are done now. The Warriors did, sort of, but they also added Kevin Durant as well as a number of solid veterans throughout the years. Also, trading for Iguodala was a massive step forward for them. Even so, they're the anomaly.

    What other teams are contenders this year?
    Toronto: traded for Lowry and Ibaka.
    Houston: traded for Harden and Chris Paul.
    Boston: traded for Irving, signed Hayward, signed Horford.
    Cleveland: technically signed LeBron, traded for Love.
    Thunder: traded for George and Anthony.

    Sixers and Blazers are maybe the only other teams that qualify as building through the draft almost exclusively, but are they really contenders though?

    On a macro scale, I'd argue history is almost never irrelevant, but certainly it's not irrelevant here. History is what makes the Lakers powerful since we have no real power on the court today. It's our history and legacy that continue to make us noteworthy despite 5 straight years of horrible, horrible basketball. Our history means greater merchandise sales, constant relevance, more national games even for a bad team (why are we playing on Christmas with 8 wins in December?).

    Also, the team I've built holds on to most of, if not all, of our youth as well as adding two max players. I'll lead that into your next point: yes I have considered the ages of our players. In fact, that's a major consideration on my part. LeBron will be the oldest major player on our team and I'd argue he needs exactly that. He needs to be surrounded by youth and vitality in order to continue to push himself forward (as well as adjust for his aging game). Next year George will be 28, and Randle will be 24 years old. That's plenty old enough to be competitive on the largest stages. Kobe Bryant won his first title at 22 years old. Magic Johnson won his first title at 21 years old. Kyrie Irving was a key part of LeBron's championship at 25 years old.

    Besides, what's the alternative? You want to wait around for 4 years wasting available money on veterans who aren't good enough to make us contenders (Lopez/Pope) and then be forced to pay for the kids when they're finally ready to compete 4 years later? You want to keep doing what we've been doing for 4 more years while Ball and Ingram get older? Why would we do that when we don't have to?

    This way, we have four years of title contention around LeBron and George while our kids continue to develop and grow. Then when the time comes, they'll be able to take the next step forward themselves and be able to contend without LeBron. Everything I've outlined works both financially and within the timetables of all of the players involved. I'd rather compete now and compete later than wait around for a time that may not come. Why waste an opportunity to make the jump and compete? That doesn't make sense to me.

    Again: my outline keeps most of our kids. At most we lose maybe Hart or Kuzma or Bryant and while that would hurt, we'd build a contender and keep Ball, Ingram, Randle, and whichever of Hart or Kuzma didn't get moved. Even that isn't truly necessary though, we can keep all of them and still get two max deals and still not pay luxury taxes. Why wouldn't we do that? There's no good reason not to take the chance when there's so little risk involved. We'd be extraordinarily blessed to have that opportunity and if that happened, it'd be a dream come true.
     
    therealdeal, Mar 28, 2018
    #7056
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  17. johnnyboy

    johnnyboy - Lakers 6th Man -

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    Love lopez, hopefully he doesn't ask for a ton
     
    johnnyboy, Mar 28, 2018
    #7057
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  18. Battle Tested20

    Battle Tested20 Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes, I would pass on giving Boogie an offer during our meeting even if what you said was true. Magic and Rob did not come all this way, make the trades that they did without getting a real shot at getting Lebron and or PG.

    Especially when you factor in the achilles tear Boogie suffered I definitely don't see this ever happening.
     
    Battle Tested20, Mar 28, 2018
    #7058
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  19. vasashi17

    vasashi17 LB's Resident Capologist

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    @tada Im sure you already know how impatient I've been for #17. There's nothing wrong with your approach in patiently grooming our youth, but it certainly seems that the FO wants to get this party started already. They don't make moves to create 2max slots otherwise. With the DLo deal, they already opened up enough for 1max dude, so from the optics the FO seems to prefer Real and my outlook.

    However, youth development will continue to occur under this scenario. Ain't nothing like taking these boys to the playoffs to turn them into men.

    Bron was 30 when he chose to come back to a Cleveland team spearheaded by a 22 year old Ky. Love was 26. So in the present scenario, Jules would be 10 years Bron's junior while PG would be 6 years younger.

    Also in order for Bron to extend his career he's going to need to play with youth. So it benefits him and vets to play with our youth, while it accelerates our youth's development to play with veteran stars. Win-win!

    If Bron and George shed 3M each off their true max deals (32.6M and 27.4M respectively), all the Lakers have to do is stretch Deng and that's it. They don't have to lose Jules to free agency and they don't have to attach any of our young guys to dump Deng's contract.

    So we get to compete asap while fast tracking the development of our youth. You get your way and we get ours. Again win-win!
     
    vasashi17, Mar 28, 2018
    #7059
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  20. LTLakerFan

    LTLakerFan - Lakers Legend -

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    I wonder if realdeal wouldn't even bring the subject up to LBJ about taking that 3 mil less. Seems embarrassed about it he's such a nice guy. :) But certainly you got to ask him and PG and Randle how good of a rest of the roster do they want to go to war with with what the FO has planned. And why be timid about it as that's how these type teams today get put together with multiple precedents. The top guys take a little less to play with one another and keep important roster talent.
     
    LTLakerFan, Mar 28, 2018
    #7060
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