I loved it. A solid 9 from me. I'll probably watch it a few more times before going into major details. Though no major tie in to the MCU, it was a great offering before Infinity War.
Had the night to dwell on it and talking to a few people about it, I love it even more. Spoiler: Meow Pros: -When thinking back on the movie the biggest standout was Wakanda, not BP. They built a beautiful world, culture and people. -The acting performances were great all around, you really feel the emotion behind every scene. -MBJ, the best villain we've seen in any MCU movie. His motivation is relateable and understandably why he is a villain. Wish we had more of him. -Just enough humor. Much better than Thor3 and Guardians 2. -Sister being the tech genius is awesome! She'll fit in with Stark and Peter Parker. -Love interest was a total badass. -That UN speech from T'Challa. Cons: -In a way it feels like two movies. Claw (great acting from Serkis) being the villain in the first and Killmonger the second. -Not enough fight scenes with BP. And while we're at it, not so great fight scenes. -Freeman's character felt out of place. -Would have liked to see more MBJ as King. In other news, holy crap White Wolf!
Spoiler Would have liked more MBJ in general. The more I think about it, the more I think about his character and how much I wish we'd gotten more of him. He was interesting basically any time he was on screen. The only time I felt Klaue was even somewhat interesting was in the museum. After the museum, he doesn't seem like a threat at all.
So Black Panther is crushing the Box Office right now. It is ranked 5th all time in 3-day opening weekends at 202 million (behind The Force Awakens 247.9, Last Jedi 220, Jurassic World 208, and Avengers 207). It is ranked 2nd all time in 4-day opening weekends at 242 million behind just The Force Awakens. It becomes the best opening of all time in the month of February. It looks to break the 500 million domestic mark by its third weekend. It's tracking right now to be at or close to a billion dollars. I've seen it twice and it was better on the second viewing. I think the characters sort of land better when you know them a little more and know their motivations a little more. Killmonger is still my favorite MCU villain thus far. In the first viewing I sort of drowned in the wonderful visuals and so I missed some of the dialogue and some of the character development, but it's all wonderfully on point. I have just a couple issues and actually my wife thought of a pretty great change to the movie: Spoiler Still don't love the rhinos although they bother me less the second time. I disliked the third act's general feel. I would have scaled it down and dedicated more time to the Killmonger vs. T'Challa fight. I didn't like W'Kabi's turn on T'Challa. It felt rushed. My wife's idea to fix that: cut out the museum scene. It does a good job of establishing how dangerous and smart Killmonger is, but how about instead our first taste of him is when he breaks Klaue out in London? Then the next time we see him is in Wakanda dropping off Klaue's dead body. At that point T'Challa puts him in prison which drives an already skeptical W'Kabi crazy. He goes to visit Killmonger, learns who he really is, and plots to release him. We get a couple more T'Challa/Killmonger scenes of dialogue to deepen their relationship. W'Kabi breaks Killmonger out, then we get the throne room scene with Killmonger confronting everyone. Dialogue can stay pretty similar. This would even make the ending line, a powerful one, that much more powerful.
Spoiler This was one thing I am a little perplexed about. The media and fans are falling all over themselves to talk about how amazing of a villain Killmongerer is, and he is a great character. But I can't put him up there in terms of "Best Marvel Villain" because I think he was underused if that makes sense. He was able to make us care about him in such a short time span, I think we needed more of him. I would almost like to have seen more of his struggles growing up in Oakland and as an agent around the world, definitely develop more of his and T'Challa's relationship. I still give the nod to Loki (and to be honest, it's still not even close) because he did everything out of love and a lack thereof from his family. There are times you are sympathetic and actually feel what Loki feels and even catch yourself rooting for him. A little more of Killmongerer witnessing horrible things in Oakland, that sort of thing could have deepened the meaning of why he wanted to release the tech to all the less fortunate people, as opposed to allowing us to fill in the blanks in our heads. It could have almost turned him into more of the anti-hero that Loki comes across as. Once again, I did really like the movie and this is a nitpick. Oddly, it's a nitpick about something that was actually great about the movie that I though could have been even better.
Spoiler Honestly I feel the opposite way: Killmonger and it's not close (it is close, I'm just being argumentative). I appreciate Loki more, but a lot of that is because we've seen him in 8 movies or so thus far. He's had for more opportunities to be fleshed out. Killmonger in maybe 30 minutes of character development is immediately one of the best villains Marvel has ever created. It's astounding. I truly wish we got more of him. I think highly of Zemo as well, but his story is way more convoluted than Killmonger's which makes him sort of weaker by default. I have a hard time following what happens with his story and how all his threads come into play. Killmonger is at once sympathetic and terrifying. I honestly struggle to think of a villain that, in one movie, is as captivating in a comic movie since maybe Heath Ledger's Joker. Someone who you can understand and still find terrifying is a perfect villain.
So as an update: Black Panther shattered all expectations again. It scored an estimated 111+ million dollars making it just the 4th movie ever to earn over 100 million in its SECOND weekend. A second weekend that high ranks second all time behind just The Force Awakens. It has tied Jurassic World as the second fastest film to reach 400 million domestically (again behind Force Awakens). It has rocketed up the MCU charts as a domestic earner and is already ranked 5th behind Civil War, Iron Man 3, and the Avengers movies. Black Panther should pass both Civil War and Iron Man 3 within the week, possibly by Monday night. It is also days away from passing Wonder Woman's Domestic total and has surpassed the entire run of Justice League already both domestic and foreign. Black Panther is well on its way to a billion dollars as it is currently the best MCU movie in presales in China (the last market to release I believe) and tracking at nearly Avengers level success. It will become the 5th MCU movie to break a billion, the only origin movie to do so, and the only MCU movie to do it without Robert Downey Jr.'s help. There are also fresh rumors of an Infinity War trailer coming out on Tuesday which makes sense. Two weeks is enough time to let Panther breathe a little in theaters. A trailer now could help reinvigorate an audience that's likely already seen the movie as well as keep momentum going for what is supposed to be Marvel's crowning achievement. Oddly enough, I think Avengers might have a little more trouble with the critics because Black Panther set the bar so high.
Finally saw Panther yesterday. Really enjoyed it as someone that was reading comics when the character was first introduced back in the day. I’ll give it a 9 overall. Pros: World building was amazing. Acting was great. Explaining the origin was concise & interesting Story was solid Loved the Kinetic energy ability for BP Dialogue was excellent with only a couple of missteps. Not overly preachy on the colonial thing. Great last line of dialogue for the bad guy. Cons: Savory’s point about the tech Savory’s point about wanting more motivation development for Killmonger. Real’s point about Rhinos Needed more action as the Panther The whole Jabari tribe angle felt like the Gungans on Naboo to me. Casino scene felt like they jacked a Bond script Did I mention Rhinos?
Actually they drew from 007 on purpose. Shuri is Q in a lot of ways. The credit sequences are sort of Bond-esque as well. I really liked the Jabari tribe personally and M'Baku was great.
Black Panther thoughts. In brief: 7/10? Spoiler Killmonger is the best thing about this movie. He's great and he really grew on me, but his failure to make a proper "reintegration" (in terms of the heroic archetype) is a failure in storytelling. Some of the supporting acting is incredible (Nyong'o, Gurira, Wright). Some of it is incredibly flat (Bassett and Boseman). Some of it is just laughable (Whitaker). Visuals were sometimes incredibly impressive and sometimes obviously bad CGI. The world-building first 30 or 40 minutes were boring. Most of the film was Marvel retread.
Excellent point on Killmonger. For me, the world building is the essential set up for the story to follow in this movie and the inevitable sequels.
Can you please explain killmonger's reintegration related to hero archetype, @trodgers . Love this ish from you. Thanks.
@Punk-101 In the heroic archetype, simplified version, there’s the departure, the journey, and the reintegration. I’m not saying that all characters have to go through this, but when they do, there’s a super strong psychological reaction – and it’s a cross-cultural reaction (examples to follow). It’s actually the violations of the heroic archetype that resonate with us as sympathetic failures. But these deviations have to happen for good reason or they seem silly and utterly unreal. E.g., Darth Vader’s return to humanity when he throws the Emperor – probably the best scene in all of the Star Wars films – is a reintegration. And then he dies. That’s okay, as he completed the journey. Okonkwo, in Things Fall Apart, can’t complete his journey, and we feel for him because he couldn’t – as he seemed so close on so many occasions to learning the lesson that was there for him. If you haven't read it, give it a shot. It's a couple hours of easy reading. On the villain here: Spoiler Killmonger is a character I thought improved and improved the more we saw of him. His motivations became clearer, and his history made good sense of why he was doing what he was trying to do. And then, after proving himself essentially equal to Black Panther, he chooses to die rather than see the world that could come after the integration. He basically explicitly refuses to reintegrate, making his journey incomplete. I think it almost had to happen in the story, because if it didn’t, he’s just a better character than Black Panther – and this movie isn’t called Killmonger. But then the problem is that the character is purposely made to fall short just to protect the hero's image. That’s weak story telling. I’d have loved to see him accept a position in Wakanda and go back and use his first-hand knowledge of inner city struggles to make the world a better place. He brings to the equation a type of knowledge that the pampered Black Panther will never know, which is why it seems natural that they work together to solve the problems. By contrast, no one expected Andy Serkis’s character to reintegrate. He was a good villain for what he was, but it was clear that he was a dead-end. Not so for Killmonger.
On the villain here: Spoiler Killmonger is a character I thought improved and improved the more we saw of him. His motivations became clearer, and his history made good sense of why he was doing what he was trying to do. And then, after proving himself essentially equal to Black Panther, he chooses to die rather than see the world that could come after the integration. He basically explicitly refuses to reintegrate, making his journey incomplete. I think it almost had to happen in the story, because if it didn’t, he’s just a better character than Black Panther – and this movie isn’t called Killmonger. But then the problem is that the character is purposely made to fall short just to protect the hero's image. That’s weak story telling. I’d have loved to see him accept a position in Wakanda and go back and use his first-hand knowledge of inner city struggles to make the world a better place. He brings to the equation a type of knowledge that the pampered Black Panther will never know, which is why it seems natural that they work together to solve the problems. By contrast, no one expected Andy Serkis’s character to reintegrate. He was a good villain for what he was, but it was clear that he was a dead-end. Not so for Killmonger. Awesome, thanks! Completely get you and I agree. ***edit*** f--- me , why won't my spoiler tags work????? Proceed below with caution. Spoiler I think the reintegrated Killmonger working alongside Black Panther would be great storytelling but may be a bit too PollyAnna for the tropes comicbook fans are used to. How about, instead, Killmonger has a "what have I done" moment once mortally wounded and seeing the people he is motivated to rise up engaged in a civil war?
