Official Wmc Thread: Um Those Too Many W's! Fix The Tank!

I love how mad people are when we win. Yes, I get that losses help our chance at a higher draft pick but there are a couple of things that matter to me on top of that...

1. I want players on the team that have enough pride to not simply lose so that THEY can be replaced. Out of all this tanking stuff this is the one part I don't get from fans that want guys to be happy to simply throw games cause they aren't good enough. The first player that is OK with losing is the first one I want shipped out.

2. This team has limited execution ability when it matters. We almost blew that game and had Utah not gone dumb we would of lost it. Which brings me to another baffling thing, a lot of "tank" guys were happy Nick was going to be out but if you want a tank then you want Nick in the game. Last night our guys attacked the paint (well J Hill still shot fall way fisher-style 2 pointers). Nick in the game those would of been "can i get a 4-point play" 3-pointers.

3. Even if we get the #1 pick most fans are going to complain about who we choose. It doesn't matter who it is, period. In fact, I expect to see "Jim is an idiot" and "Mitch has lost it" post about 2 min after we make our draft pick.

4. Even if we lost all the games that doesn't give us a definite top 5. Yes, the odds are higher but haven't we been paying attention to the draft over the past few years? I'm not confident any of it will go our way.

In any case I was shocked we actually pulled out a victory. We'll have a loss to make up for it that is almost a given.

 

Salute to you; you're streaming this horrible team and still supporting them. Last night, it was the most fun I had watching the game in awhile; all due to just watching JC develop, grow, and take another leap forward in his maturation as a player.

 

Yea JC looked nice. Like I said in the GD chat I reserve judgement because we play like crap and it is easy to simply ball when there are no expectations. So far he seems like the real deal. I see a little Westbrook mentality in him but not as far as thinking he should be #1 but as far as he isn't afraid of the moment or pressure. Im slowly getting on this kids bandwagon for sure.

 

So do I, but when 90% of this roster is going to be gone, that's an irrelevant point.

 

the problem is we don't know who is going to be gone or not. Yes we have ideas of who will be kept but that 10% gains a loser mentality then we, as fans, will be blasting the hell out of them next season for doing what we praised this season. If it is OK to not bust your *** during this season why shouldn't they do a D. Rose and "think about my next contract" during next season? For me, and I am fine being alone on this, it is a very relevant point. This team is not good enough to win a lot of games and I am fine with that but I am not fine with anyone wanting to lose to get higher lottery numbers. Matter fact, as I typed that I thought if 90% of the guys are going to be gone then they should be busting their ***es to showcase themselves.

 

I'd rather have guys that bust their butts every game even if it means losing the pick. I loved seeing JC in particular attack the basket all game.

I don't like the idea of creating a losing culture just for the sake of keeping the pick. I personally loved the effort I saw last night.

Also, we get to see who's worth keeping next season.

@puffyusaf#2, you're not alone on this, I agree with you.

 

^ not worried about a losers mentality when Kobe is in their face day in and day out. He won't allow it. Nor will Scott when games start to matter.

 

So you'd rather pick up an additional 3-5 wins with players we'll never see again and set the franchise back another 2-3 years? To me that's just awful business.

 

I agree with your general premise of keeping the pick, but there is a decent chance that Kobe won't be around to be in their face and hold them accountable. He might get injured again and be out for an extended period of time; truth be told, we can't count on him to be healthy for 82 games anymore. That's done.

 

I doubt there is any chance of there being a tangible difference in "loser mentality" by winning 20 games vs 25.

 

I know what you mean. I think some players are susceptible to internalizing the loser mentality. My point isn't about whether or not a loser mentality is something to worry about, but rather is it something to worry about for this team this season. I never want our players to lose on purpose, but I'm ok with Byron putting out bad lineups to lose on purpose. The question then becomes, is Byron's losing on purpose going to negatively affect the players that are trying to win? Clarkson, Black, Davis, and ellington all seem to be playing very hard and very well even during our longest losing streak. So, why worry about these guys getting the loser virus by finishing with 20 wins instead of 25? Those 5 losses aren't going to affect those guys IMO. If we were a 40 win team and someone argued, "we're going to miss the playoffs so what's the point...let's tank" then I'd be worried about developing the lose attitude. Our young guys that we want to keep don't have the loser attitude so far, so why worry about a few more losses when the alternative is losing the pick?

 

Losing a pick is not going to set us back 2 or 3 years. Creating a losing culture could set us back way longer than that. Look at Philly.

 

^ That's incredible naive. If this was a Lakers team picking in the 20s, even the teens then I'd agree with you. But when you're talking about a top 5 pick with franchise players at stake, then that absolutely sets you back years. If the Lakers don't get that pick this year and we have to find a way to spread out max money for one player between three starting players. The level of talent you're able to field at that point is very low. We won't be any better next year and next year's draft is awful. Then Kobe will be gone and a full rebuild with only Randle starts and good luck luring players here with just Randle. If you think that turnaround happens any sooner than 3 years, that's extremely optimistic. Either you're putting minimal stock into the draft or are putting too much stock in an extra 5 losses. Maybe both. It takes a lot more than that to define a team culture. Those aren't made or broken overnight. The Lakers created a culture through decades of winning and by hoisting up banner after banner into the rafters and by loading up a trophy case with O'Brien trophy after trophy. You can't destroy that with an anomaly of a season that's nothing more than a blip on the map. Can't compare that to the bottom feeders we're currently sharing the bottom of the standings with. Teams like Philly who hold firesales for draft picks or NY who can't do anything right...ever.

 

I don't think you can accurately say next years draft is awful before this one has even taken place.

 

@Doc Brown unless half of the first round prospects this year stay another year, a dozen or so players come out of the woodwork between now and this time next year, there's off-season development like there hasn't been in years, and every analyst/scout is dead wrong; then yeah, it's not going to be pretty. Stone and Maker interest me, but I think they're not close to being ready for a NBA job at the center position.

 

I remember TRD saying that the 3rd only fell out of the top 5 1 time since 06 which was in 07; so, I went all the way back to 2000. The number 3 spot has only fell out of the top 5 once in 14 or so years. The 4th spot has fell out 3 times since that same time frame. We end up 3 and odds are in our favor to keep our pick...