Yeah I'm not sure Renner has been the problem for Hawkeye. Hawkeye is a pretty cool character who is diverse and interesting. Renner has the chops to represent that. Unfortunately he's gotten maybe a quarter of the screen time as the rest of the Avengers.
I am no Renner fan, but I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt here. At this point Hawkeye has been little more than a simplistic plot device. A:AoU might change that...
I think initially Marvel's plan was just to use Widow and Hawkeye as plot devices all along, but they realized they'd broken a little bit of a mold with Widow so they gave her a larger role. Now they either need to replace Renner or do the same for him. He deserves his own screen time.
My humble view: Renner is terrible, and the character is pretty minimal, too. But you don't think that RDJ or another good actor wouldn't steal every scene they're in if they had even that terribly written role? Just think...Depp, Kilmer when he was younger, RDJ, even physically imposing actors like Statham would steal scenes. Renner is just there, and he's simply uninteresting.
T-Rod, I agree with your take on Renner, I'm just not a fan. However, comparing him to guys like Depp, young Kilmer, RDJ, or even physically imposing actors is really like comparing a secondary roll player to an all star or even a top flight sixth man. You aren't going to cast most of those guys as a glorified plot device. It doesn't help that his career took off and basically took him out of cap two. I think the next film will be his make or break moment and if it goes off flat he will bail l and marvel will gladly reload.
I guess there's something to that. I don't think ScoJo or Hemsworth are great actors, but they have a great deal of charisma. Renner is just flat. I feel the same way, by the way, with Hiddleston as Loki. He doesn't do it for me, but he's a sorta villain as is, so I don't mind so much. I think the list of actors who could have pulled off Hawkeye even in a small role is pretty large. Renner wouldn't be in the top 100. I hope I don't sound like I'm being a j****** about this. I think he's been fine in some roles, but I just don't care for him, don't find him charismatic, and I don't see why he was cast.
Largely I agree with you, I am just willing to give him one last chance lol. Personally I would have gone in a different direction than Renner, but I'm not sure who.
My two cents: I like Renner in general. I don't think he's the main problem with Hawkeye. The Hawkeye in the MCU is underdeveloped and uninteresting. I don't really mind this because he's such a small part of the movies and still contributed to a few cool action sequences. I'm not too well versed in comic book knowledge. I don't know much about Hawkeye. Maybe he's supposed to be an awesome character, but at this point I don't care. I had never even heard of him before the Avengers, so I'd honestly just rather have more screentime for the heroes that I already know and love than to have them actually spend time to develop Hawkeye into the character that apparently he was supposed to be from the beginning. On topic though: There is too much news for me to keep up with. What's the deal with this Spiderman stuff? I know that Garfield is out and Spiderman will be showing up in Marvel movies, but what is Sony planning? Apparently they're still focused on movies for Venom and the Sinister Six. I'm guessing this will now be in a separate universe from the Garfield Spiderman movies? It looks like our first look at Spiderman will be in a Marvel movie, but after that, what it the plan for his standalone movies? Is it coming before or after the Venom/Sinister Six movies? Will it be another reboot/origin story, or will they just give us that origin in a Marvel movie? Honestly, this all seems kinda confusing. I would've rather had Marvel get complete exclusive rights to Spiderman from Sony. Scratch the movies based on the villains, introduce Spidey at the end of Avengers or Cap 3, and then give him his own movie with an accelerated origin story.
The Spiderman stuff - the attitude is all off. It's a bit like the older Batman stuff. If you don't go Adam West Batman, you have to go dark. Something similar has to happen with Spiderman. There's just a weird tone to the Garfield films overall. Ditch the writers.
I'm not sure I could come up with 50 realistic actor targets that would do better than him, so I would have to say yes. I don't love him, but I find myself defending him... strange.
Alright here's what I've gathered- 1. The Garfield Spider-Man Universe is dead. It's gone, just like Tobey McGuire's Spider-Man is dead and gone. Any movie coming out now with Spider-Man is a different guy and a different Universe (the Marvel Universe). 2. Sinister Six is still in production, but that could mean a lot of things. It could mean they've already got a script. It could mean they're still working loosely on a plot. It could mean the movie is basically dead sitting on the backburner while other properties/movies get handled. 3. The next time you see Spidey will either be in a cameo after Avengers 2, a cameo after Ant-Man, or for sure he'll be Captain America: Civil War. My bet would be as a post-credit scene in Avengers 2. There's too much momentum now to not give the fans what they want. You might not even see Spidey's face. You might not even hear his voice, but I feel like it'd make too much sense not to include something of him in a post-credit scene to keep the fans involved. 4. Any SOLO Spider-Man movie is handled by Sony. They pay for it, produce it, and distribute it on their own. The only difference is that now some of the players that have made Marvel successful are going to have says in the movie. Whedon, the Russo Brothers, Feige obviously will all have roles in shaping WHO Spider-Man is and what the story will be. Sony technically will make up the plot of the story, but they wouldn't have leased this property back to Marvel if they weren't extremely nervous about their own creative teams. The next solo Spider-Man movie will be heavily influenced by Marvel. 5. Spider-Man now exists in Marvel's world. So the next solo Spidey movie exists in the same Universe as Daredevil, Guardians of the Galaxy, Agents of Shield, Agent Carter, Thor, Iron Man, etc. Some of those characters will likely be in the solo movie that happens with Spider-Man, but it'll be Spidey's own story just like Thor and Cap have their own stories. The only difference is Sony gets final say, so if they want to change things, they can. If they desperately want to push ahead with their own ideas, they can and Marvel can't do anything about it. Of course that's highly unlikely because why ask for a really successful person's help if you're not going to take it, right?
This pretty much exactly how I translate it. I'm not sure we get a credits scene in Avengers 2. My guess is it's already been shot and its Thanos related. And Spiderman is too big to put as the "joke" credits scene at the end. I have nothing to base this on, but I think the best way to avoid the whole reboot thing is to do a mid-credits scene in Ant-Man showing a crazy a** looking spider in a lab lower itself down onto a teenage kid and biting him on the back of his neck. Boom. Origin story. Then in Civil War he can make a few mysterious cameos, mention him as one of the characters that needs to register or whatever angle they are taking. Then his movie drops the next year. With all this you wouldn't even have to have an actor cast. Let one credit scene and a couple mentions in a movie serve as his origin story. Spoiler: Predictions for the Marvel Future: This is all speculation on my part. Spiderman I feel will play a HUGE role in Infinity Wars. I predict Cap will "die" in Cap 3 and Thor will disappear or appear to die in Ragnarok. Stark may go into hiding along with Banner due to their creation of Ultron. Spiderman, Captain Marvel, Dr. Strange and Black Panther will serve as the new Avengers in Part one of Infinity Wars and the whole team will return in Part 2 to finish off Thanos... with Cap delivering the final blow.
Spoiler: Response to Your Spoilers I definitely agree. They're setting up a separate team here and that team is going to lead the way for Phase 3 for Marvel. Captain Marvel and Black Panther are HUGE movies for Marvel. It's their chance to grab a hold of a strong female lead AND a strong black lead. Marvel wants to be ahead of all the curves in comic book movies. I like your idea with the spider in Ant-Man. We don't need an origin. We don't even need the spider bite and all that. Honestly if we just saw a kid swinging around, we'd get it: he's Spider-Man. There's been a lot of rumors of Spider-Man NOT being white which I'm cool with as long as the character is still Peter Parker. We've yet to see Parker done right and 30 years of comics shouldn't be overlooked. You want to make him Asian, Black, or Hispanic? I don't care as long as the character is still Peter Parker. I think Phase 3 will see the Avengers featuring Doctor Strange, Spider-Man, Captain Marvel, Ant-Man, and Black Panther. I would hope you get Hawkeye in there and give that character a chance to develop. I see Hulk being blasted into space for Guardians 2/Planet Hulk. I would love to see Spider-Man used by Marvel to bridge the gap between Agents of Shield, Daredevil, and the Avengers but I don't know if Sony will allow that.
Spoiler: My response to your response to my spoilers I just like the spider bite idea because everyone knows that scene and it can be done in about 10 seconds. It's the quintessential "Birth of Spiderman" moment. Its all you need and creates the perfect sort of, "It's starting!" moment that their credit scenes are known for. I don't care what his race is either, but it WILL be Peter Parker. Going with Morales would be similar to DC going with d*** Grayson or Azrael for Batman. The main stream audience would wonder what the heck is going on. They can't take that sort of risk. I do worry that going with a race different than white for Parker would be an over the top "Look at us and our diversity" type move. They already have Black Panther and Captain Marvel in this phase. At what point does diversity casting become patronizing? If they are going to change his race, I'd go with Asian. Open up a world of marketing opportunities in Asia, and of course, if one race is COMPLETELY absent from the American film industry, its them. The Hulk/Guardians crossover is interesting and one I hadn't thought of.
Spoiler: The SPOILES Yeah I agree on changing his race, I just feel like it's something they want to get ahead of. Even if they make him a different race just for the hell of it, I think they're open to it. My choice is Asa Butterfield. He's a goofy looking kid and was the lead in that "Ender's Game" movie I didn't watch. He seems to fit the age range they're looking for and he already has lead a franchise at a young age. I don't know many young black actors. I'd be all for making him Asian, but I doubt they have the guts to do it. Hulk/Guardians has been rumored for a while because Hulk doesn't have his own movie AND Planet Hulk was a comic that did a tremendous job selling-wise. I could definitely see it happening. If Hulk is an antagonist in this movie, how do they justify keeping him around?
Spoiler: The SPOILICIOUS While Butterfield may be the age he is supposed to be in the movie, I think they will cast someone who is actually early to mid 20's. Butterfield is like 17 and looks like he's 12. I think they might be worried about how young he looks. I thought he did great in Enders Game though. The name I hear a lot of is Logan Lerman (Percy Jackson). I'm not saying I like him, just the dude who has been mentioned a lot. I guess he was good in Fury (haven't seen it). One thing to keep in mind is Marvel would not be getting ahead of the field as it pertains to changing races. DC already changed it up by making Will Smith Deadshot and Fox making Michael B. Jordan Johnny Storm. I also think it is inevitable DC goes with John Stewart as opposed to Hal Jordan for the eventual Green Lantern reboot. If nothing else, to distance themselves from the stench of the last Green Lantern movie. I also think there are a few characters you can't really change the race of because they are too well known. Spiderman, Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman...I think these are just too ingrained as white characters. I don't know that Hulk is an antagonist in the movie. His eyes are red when he is in his rage which lends to the belief that the fight between him and Iron Man is due to Hulk being controlled by Scarlet Witch. But if he is out of control, jettisoning him into space makes A LOT of sense. Planet Hulk and his subsequent return could actually serve as a worthy foe for the Avengers AFTER the Infinity Wars.
Spoiler: Spoilopolus I just like that the kid was able to carry the franchise by himself. If they're looking for a high-school age kid he fits the bill perfectly and was able to support a big movie as almost a first time actor. Lerman would be alright... I just am not all that excited about him honestly. I know Suicide Squad and F4 would be first, but Marvel is betting on two things: 1) FF4 is going to bomb. You want to talk about changing a character's race arbitrarily holy crap! Johnny Storm is black, but his sister is white? Why wouldn't you just find a good, young black actress to play Sue Storm? I don't get that at all. and 2) Suicide Squad will be disappointing. Will Smith tends to dominate scenes and doesn't play well with others. Couple that with Fox properties which usually sell great, but aren't very good after a re-watch. Marvel will be the first to give a lead role to a woman where she supports her own movie. DC/WB or whoever owns the rights to Wonder Woman has said forever that people won't watch a female superhero movie. Marvel is going to try to crush that idea. Black Panther is maybe the most iconic Black superhero in the field right now and they're going to try to make sure that overshadows John Stewart. By the way John Stewart is a great example of a character's race changing and it not mattering. Same with Nick Fury. I am fine with whatever race they go with on Spider-Man as long as it makes sense and is consistent. If you pick a black kid, have him with a black family. Nothing wrong with that. I think it's very likely Hulk is controlled, but even so if he's fighting Iron Man openly then he's a threat to the world. I think what could spark the Civil War debate for the MCU is Tony blasting Hulk off before anyone else has a chance to say or do anything about it. He'll do it for the greater good, but he'll do it without consulting anyone. Cap will ask who gave him that authority. Iron Man says it's his responsibility since they're super powered and everyone else isn't. Boom Civil War.
