Star Wars Thread (a Galaxy Far Far Away) Obi-Wan Movie In The Works! (36)

I figured Han would peobably die, but still, going into the movie I’d have preferred to not know it was at the hand of Kylo Ren. Thinking he may die, maybe killed by Snoke or something is different than knowing going in as soon as he walks out on that incredibly unsafe bridge, Kylo is going to kill him. For The Last Jedi, I don’t gave tickets already, I’m going to have to see it on a weekday hopefully next week, so I’m going to have to avoid so much to stay unspoiled for this one.

 

I'll do my best not to spoil everything about the movie tomorrow night when I get out of the theater.

 

I know. I'm going to want to talk about it on Friday on here, but I'll probably wait until at least Monday to say anything about it in this thread.

 

Man I’m not even coming into this thread from Thursday night until after I’ve seen it, no way.

 

Now that I know Weezy ain't coming in here at all, I might do a spoiler tag conversation with you guys. I don't want to ruin it for anybody.

 

I'll definitely spoiler tag anything. All I'll post in here is a general "I liked it" type of thing. Then I'll spoiler tag about 500 words worth of whatever I have to say.

 

Yeah. Prepare for a novel from me.

 

Entering the movie now... here we gooooooo...

 

I'll post a lot more later on, but all I'll say is this movie gives you a LOT to think about. There's so much to unpack in it... It's sort of hard to really pinpoint any one topic. I'll sleep on it and write a truly spoiler-y review tomorrow some time.

 

I'm going to just give my general opinion first: I have no idea if I liked it or not. This isn't an Episode One type deal where the movie was poorly executed and weird, and I was trying to convince myself I liked it because it was Star Wars. This is a good movie. It was well shot, well executed, well acted...but because it's part 8 of a 9 part saga, I'm not sure if I really liked it (cause there's a lot to REALLY like), or if I disliked it. Like Real said above, there is a lot to address in this one. I have a lot of different emotions right now. This ain't no rehash of any previous Star Wars movie, that's for sure.

 

Spoiler: Marty McFly This is HEAVY Spoilers

Spoiler: Seriously Spoilers

After having a long in-depth discussion with my friends at work who saw it, I have come to the conclusion that it was a good movie, but I didn’t like it.

Pros:

The acting was top notch throughout. Other than Carrie Fisher who was still pretty weak IMO, the cast nailed their roles and everything that was asked of them.

It is one of the best looking Star Wars movies from a directing/cinematography perspective. Rian had some incredible looking shots

The killing of Snoke was great. It came unexpectedly, and it actually makes sense. It serves to further strengthen the bond between Kylo and Rey giving more emotion to their inevitable final showdown.

In betweens:

I liked Rose and Finn’s chemistry and how their relationship kind of grew organically. I didn’t like their arc. They felt like they were doing what they were doing because they needed something to do for them.

Poe, while he had a much bigger role, could be looked at as the First Order’s MVP for the movie as his plan is the reason there are like only 15 people left in the Resistance.

Cons:

#1 Con and it’s not even close is Rey. I hate her character. This has nothing to do with Daisy Ridley and her acting or portrayal. It’s the fact that her character is one of the laziest written heroes I’ve seen.

The term Mary Sue is often thrown about regarding her. I will refrain from using that term as it can be sexist and her sex has nothing to do with it. I was willing to give Force Awakens a pass on why she was so powerful so fast until we found out who she was. But if Kylo is to be believed, she is no one. And even if Kylo is lying and she is someone, she’s still pulling off crap that is like Master Yoda in his prime level s***. Because this movie basically picks up where Ep. VII leaves off, she has known about the Force for 2-3 weeks at the point where she takes down several of Snoke’s highly trained guards (evidently sparing with a large rock on Ach-tu allows this kind of saber mastery)…still with no formal Force training (Luke doesn’t even train her).

She also lifts SEVERAL giant boulders and suspends them in mid-air for several seconds without even trying at the end. Luke trained with Yoda and had years to master his craft before Endor and he had to close his eyes and concentrate to lift just C3PO. Heck, Yoda had to really concentrate to lift Luke’s X-Wing out of the swamp and he’d been a Jedi for like 900 freaking years. Rey is able to do whatever the plot needs. With the boulders at the end, they weren’t even needed. They were stuck there in order to prop Rey up.

Rey’s ridiculous affinity of the Force has single handedly neutered the entire Skywalker line.

This movie also gave us, quite honestly, the most ridiculous scene in the history of Star Wars. Leia is evidently not only strong in the Force, she is Kal-El’s distant cousin. Her flying to that door was the cringiest moment I’ve ever been a part of in a movie theater. My theater was giggling, moaning and had several instances of people murmuring under their breath, “What the f***?” within earshot of me.

Luke’s death is a con right now until I see what is made of him in Episode 9. Right now, the end of Return of the Jedi is now disgustingly bittersweet knowing that Han Solo not only ends up estranged from his wife, but dies at the hand of his son. And Luke fails to start a new Jedi Academy and ends up living like a hermit on an island for several years where he is embarrassed, ashamed, and emotionally destroyed. He has like 30 seconds of peace at the very end, but dies essentially alone. Thank you Disney for taking our heroes and the triumphs they experienced and making them virtually meaningless when you consider billions and billions of people were destroyed (via Starkiller Base) because Han and Luke failed.

 

Spoiler: Answer Spoilers with more Spoilers

Spoiler: GET THE F*** OUT OF HERE IT'S SPOILERS

Okay I'll add on to what you've got. Here's my rebuttal to Rey:

1. Anakin was also a ridiculously adept Force user, right? When we first meet him he's not just an accomplished mechanic, he's also a Pod Racer in what's considered the most dangerous sport in the world. He actually WINS a race at like 10 years old, younger even than Rey is now. Beyond that, he ends up in a ship he's magically able to pilot and SINGLE HANDLEDLY brings down the Trade Federation.

So while Rey's character is lazily written, is it truly that much more far fetched than Anakin? And we're made to believe she's stronger than he was (because Luke > Vader and Rey > Luke).

2. Luke picks up the Force really quickly too. I don't know what the time frame is between 5 and 6, but Luke becomes a Jedi Master between those two movies.

3. Also the most interesting line in the movie is something nobody is talking about: Snoke tells Rey that he wanted Kylo that as long as Kylo continues to gain power, a light side user will rise to match him. Rey is that light sider. So a lot of her Force competence comes from her symbiotic relationship with Kylo.

This movie made me like Rey a lot more honestly. My only complaint is she should have had more lasting damage done from her meeting with Snoke.

Leia in space... I got nothing. I don't mind the idea, but the execution was HORRIBLE. I actually liked seeing her with some Force abilities, but to have her out there freezing and then just visually it looked like Mary Poppins. It wasn't well executed at. all.

I felt like Luke's death was superfluous. They had the cool reveal during the Kylo fight, but when he made it through that he still died? Why didn't he just go there then? I do think their stories are bittersweet, but that's characteristic of literally every character so far. Yoda is a massive failure. Luke followed suit. Han's life ends up being tragic, but I don't honestly consider him a failure. Sometimes a parent just makes mistakes, not every kid turns into a monster.

My Pros:
- I loved the weird connection between Rey and Kylo. It was different from what we've seen thus far in Star Wars. It was a cool storytelling devise.

- I loved that they took the Force in different directions. We saw astral projection on a grand scale. We saw a very cool version of Luke going into the dark tree on Dagobah with Rey. I thought that was visually and conceptually interesting.

- There were some tremendous emotional moments that I won't get too into here.

- I thought they story did a good job of skating familiar territory, but going in other directions. This plot is not at all dissimilar from ESB. The Rebels are under attack immediately. They escape, the big time Force user goes to a distant planet to a reluctant teacher, everyone else remains in imminent danger, some are betrayed by a perceived ally, and then the Force user leaves their training before they're ready and face certain death. Everything else was a twist away from that line which I thought was good.

- I love the idea that the Force is literally balanced and that Kylo and Rey are the two sides of that balance. I am eager to see where they end things in Episode 9 knowing that those two are the key to keeping things balanced.

Cons:

- I love to laugh, but I didn't want to laugh so much. A little too much humor.

- I thought the Finn/Rose storyline was extremely forced towards the end. I didn't mind their adventure, but it was too long and their love story in the end was awkward.

- Leia space scene was yuck. All respect to Carrie Fisher, but that was garbage.

- As much loss as we witnessed, I didn't feel like any of our main characters gave enough for this story. Rey, Finn, Poe, and now Rose all made it out fine.

- Why did Luke die at the end? What was the point of that? I understand what he did was ridiculously powerful Force manipulation, but if he was just going to die anyway, why didn't he go to the planet in reality and make it happen?

 

Spoiler: Answer to Answer with Spoilers with more Spoilers

Spoiler: Be happy we are giving you a second chance to turn away

I don't think we can compare 10 year old Anakin's piloting skills. That whole scene (and part of the silliness that was Episode One) was made to be almost a joke. He was flying that thing and essentially hitting buttons by accident. He was shooting at battle droids, hit the wrong button and fired a missile into the center of the ship. We weren't made to believe he was intentionally doing that stuff. Rey is not accidentally dueling with highly trained guards. She is not accidentally lifting rocks. Pod racing and having slightly precognitive abilities is a far cry than lifting 100s of large boulders at the same time. But therein lies another one of the biggest issues: We are comparing her to a child that was born from the Force. That's why I'm saying it neuters the Skywalker line into something that isn't that special. It completely craps on the first 6 films and what is supposedly the canonical power/development of the Force.

Luke had about 3 years between episode 4 and 5 to teach himself and 2 years between 5 and 6. Rey is working on about 3 weeks right now. Luke was fast. Rey is essentially Neo in the Matrix getting crap uploaded to her brain.

As far as that line Snoke goes, power does not mean skill. She is showing skills that come from years of training. I can have a tremendous natural feel for the game of basketball and be a ridiculous athlete. But if I don't practice my shooting, I'm Ben Simmons. Anakin had the highest midichlorian count in history. He was no match for Yoda or Count Dooku or any of those guys until he had trained for years.

I'm really trying to be self reflective as to whether or not I'm being "get off my lawn" guy. But I really don't think that's the case. Rey is a lazy, lazy character. As of this writing, The Last Jedi is sitting at 57% audience score on Rotten Tomatoes.

 

Spoiler: Alright enough chances, don't click jerks

I think it's still a fair comparison that Anakin was so skilled and so is Rey. She's supposed to be a step further than Anakin was in terms of talent. Luke picked up rocks within a week or two with Yoda and she's better than Luke. Much better in fact. She's the culmination of the Force much like Anakin was.

I don't think it's s***ting on the Skywalkers because Kylo is exactly as powerful, and he's the Skywalker blood line. If anything, it's just a continuation of the same sort of story that Anakin himself was: a nobody until he became somebody. The Skywalkers are important, but they're not the start and stopping of the Force. I'm okay with that and I think as time goes on, that'll feel less like a betrayal of the characters we enjoyed growing up. It's a continuation of their story, not their heritage.

Also keep in mind that Rey had trained herself how to fight long before we meet her. She's an adept fighter already when we see her on Jakku. Now I agree her ability to use a lightsaber effectively as opposed to her staff is suspect, but I'm not hung up on it that much honestly. At this point, she and Kylo are cheat codes. The two of them are Neo in the Matrix. They get further than anything we've seen from the Force thus far. They're stronger than Anakin in the Force just like Luke was stronger than Vader in the Force. Rey was no match for Snoke in terms of Force abilities which is a direct parallel to Luke not being a match for the Emperor, but everyone else is fair game.

I think she's written a bit lazily, but it's not like she's a heck of a lot lazier than any of the other characters we've gotten over the years. Luke went from farmboy to war hero in the span of a few hours. We just love him because he's been around for 40 years.

edit- I edited my original post to reflect some of my general thoughts on the movie as well. I don't think it's perfect, but I enjoyed it and I think it's going to age well.

 

Spoiler: Theory

I was thinking last night, the whole Rey being too powerful waaaaay too fast might stem from our current Hollywood trend of superhero movies. Rather than learning the ways of the Force through study, discipline, meditation, practice (ya know, the way the first 6 movies explained it had to be done even with someone who was born from the Force like Anakin)...Rey more or less was given her gifts at full strength because she touched a lightsaber and now she's trying to figure out how to harness her power...more like a superhero origin story. A powerful evil already exists at almost full strength (Kylo and Snoke) and rather than build up the character like Luke until he can try to hang with them, Rey is essentially bit by the proverbial Radioactive Spider (possibly the first time a radioactive spider has ever been proverbial) and now she is going through her Spiderman Homecoming phase.

It's just a thought as to the line of thinking they had with this thing. Maybe the influence of all these superhero movies bled into the thinking of this thing.

 

If you're like me, you'll grow more angry as more time passes.