White Supremacist March: Charlottesville NC

Remember this photo I posted before? Well video just came out on what happened when this was taken.... one of the White Suprimisists took out his gun and shot at him or in front of him, and the cops were right there and did nothing about it.

 

It doesn't have to be completely staged. There are people who actually feel this way. If you send a few plants to spark violence, others will act out as well.

For instance, I don't believe the man firing the gun was a plant.

I would not for a second hesitate to believe that this event was orchestrated by the DNC. I think it got bigger than they thought it would, but like the guy points out at the end: maybe that wasn't a terrible thing for their party. They get to run on the backs of racism, foment insurrection, and vilify every single Republican? That's a killing a lot of birds with one stone.

It does not at all change the fact that Trump has pushed both parties to this level.

 

Agree. They can put a couple people in there and let the snowball start to roll downhill. But if Soros is involved, I automatically believe the worst.

 

As I've said before, planting Agent Provocatours, i.e. people sent into a protest specifically to incite a riot or violence is a widely used tactic in protests nowadays. I have no doubt some were planted on both sides of events like these to manipulate people and/or give the media scenes to exploit a narrative.

That being said, videos like this, using sensationalized tittles and conclusions like "it was all staged" for click bait, are dangerous. No, it was not all staged. These people live in this country. They hate your existence if you're not white, and often if you are.

Two days ago, my friend in Omaha Nebraska was crossing the street to go to Starbucks when people in a car drove buy, called him a wetback n***** (he's Puerto Rican) and pointed a gun at him, then sped off. Yesterday, my other friends brother was walking down the street and a guy called him a Jew and told him to leave America. My friends brother isn't even Jewish, he's white with curly hair. This happened in Los Angeles... not in the south, or even an outlying California town... in Los Angeles. They are feeling empowered and getting bolder, but they have been here all along.

I don't think any of us want this to be the reality, but please don't for a second think this is all faked. We need to acknowledge that agent provocateurs probably were at that and nearly every big protest nowadays, but understand that they are not the driving force or the majority of any protest.

 

I would say "catalyst" instead of "driving force", but yes I agree that the title of "Staged??" is a misleading one. Something can be orchestrated without being staged.

 

Very true.

I hate it when people take videos like this as license to dismiss these kinds of events.

 

I'm with you guys, I'm just saying that what he said holds value. I don't like the way he's providing his information, but it's relevant information.

I think there's a massive likelihood that these events were made worse by nefarious influences, but that these people still absolutely exist.

 

Oh the content of his video absolutely has value. He just drew a conclusion that is not substantiated and would lead anyone inclined to want to disbelieve in that march to believe it didn't really happen, and that's wrong.

I cringe at using the word "dangerous" to describe that video because that label is so often used by left extremists as a tag to vilify topics or conversations they don't want to have, but I think it's a valid label for that title here. You don't have to pay attention to what happened in Charlotte because it was all fake anyway.

 

I'd love to punch a white supremacist in the face, but that's a good way to get charges pressed against you.

 

Some. I wouldn't be at all surprised

 

Here's a long read, but good summation of how bad it really is to be a modern day Nazi, and how Antif ties into it all from a post on Facebook:

"Yesterday I opened Twitter to find Mia Farrow, of all people, tweeting this - "Shame on #antifa for attacking peaceful right-wing demonstrators in Berkeley. We don't want or need you" along with a link to a news story about anti-fascist activists attacking Trump supporters. So, after I got done wondering what this "we" s*** is all about, I got to thinking about how somebody like Ms. Farrow can comprehend a phenomena like antifa, and my own, past experiences with fascists

My experience has mainly been connected to music. Indie music scenes have attracted fascists for decades. Although half the band was Jewish, very early on the Ramones began using Nazi imagery just to shock, but the immediate response of both friends and club owners made them give it up. Much the same has happened since then, when bands incorporate Nazi signifiers – either they give them up or they wind up playing for Nazi crowds. Because hard experience talk the lesson that there is no coexistence with Nazis.

Once a club starts featuring Nazi bands, and the bands bring their followers, non-Nazis just don't want to be around. it's just not worth it anymore. So the music scene learned very early on that you either reject and expel these a******* immediately or they are going to take over and make life miserable. It wasn't some sort of organized ostracization on the part of the crowds, generally. It's just that the culture learned what happens when you let them stay. It's wasn't overtly political, it wasn't any sort of statement about fascism. It was just people not wanting to be around them for a very simple reason.

Modern-day Nazis are just f***ing a*******. They are just s***ty, nasty, awful a*******. Every time.

Maybe a little history could help serve to illustrate my point.

Hitler wrote Mein Kampf in 1923 and he was pretty clear about his beliefs regarding race. He took power in ten years later and began putting those beliefs into policy, but however bad his initial treatment of the Jews and the other targeted communities was, I think it's fair to say that anyone predicting the Holocaust would've been considered a little on the paranoid side, early on. Even during the war, even during the death camps, it's hard to say how many Germans actually knew how bad things were, what was going on. And it's hard to say what they could've done about it, by that point. Some of them knew a lot, eventually, some people guessed, but most people tried to remain ignorant.

Even people like Albert Speer or Eichman, people who were ultimately, directly responsible for sending thousands of people to their deaths would likely have been truly horrified at the prospect ten years earlier. They were eased into it because that's how human morality and behavior functions. For a myriad of reasons, most people just don't jump headfirst into oceans of blood, even the really bad ones. They generally need to dip their toes, a bit. Almost no one, in the grand scheme, joined the Nazi party thinking "I want to gas Jews."

Since the war, Western culture has in part dealt with the world historic trauma it suffered culturally by a constant, therapeutic, necessary stream of art and documentation of the Reich's crimes against humankind. Movies, books, television, visual arts, music, there isn't a form of human communication that hasn't been used to explore the horror of what the race began to learn about itself in 1945. In 1995 the History Channel went on the air and for at least the first ten years it seemed like a good half the channel's content was comprised exclusively of WWII documentaries, and a good portion of those being devoted to the holocaust. The flooding of the culture with the history of what is likely the worst tragedy in world history has been comprehensive and impossible to ignore.

And that's what attracted today's Nazis. Understand that.

Unlike the original Nazis, today's didn't join because they were attracted to inspiring words about national pride, and they didn't join in ignorance of the ultimate outcome of Nazi ideas, the goals. No semi-decent person sees the images of the death camps and thinks "I should look into these Nazis a little more, maybe they had some good ideas." The contemporary crop didn't learn about Nazi political ideology first and decide to adopt it. They didn't grow up at the bottom of a f***ing well. Every single contemporary Nazi was attracted to Nazism cognizant of of its worst crimes. Not in spite of those crimes, and generally because of them. They saw the video, they read the history, and they thought "That's sounds great, sign me up." Even the ones who deny the holocaust like it. They revel in the imagery of the Holocaust. That's what they're in it for. The Holocaust isn't a bug for them, it's a feature.

They don't divorce themselves from the history of the name. It wouldn't be hard. It's certainly possible to advocate racist positions without appropriating Nazi or fascist specific iconography or ideas. Some on the alt-right even try. But, eventually, they slip up and out pops a seig heil or a "blood and soil". They want the history. They celebrate that history. Things that would have horrified the people who wound up committing war crimes for the Reich, had they known of them before joining the party, are what these people are attracted to.

In order to be comfortable with Nazism now, 70 years after Allied troops freed the thousands from the camps, after the townspeople of nearby Weimar were forced at gunpoint to tour the Buchenwald camp, you are committing to an evil far more concrete, more completely understood, than anyone but Adolph Hitler could have known until the Third Reich fell. The people who identify with Nazism in the present day are, in some very important ways, worse than the originals. They know what happened, they've seen the footage of the starving men and women, the piles of skulls, the corpses of the children, they like it.

They glory in it.They relish it. Because, uniformly, modern day Nazis are disturbed, violent, sociopathic jerks. The exceptions to this rule are notable for their rarity. Richard Spencer is not the norm. The Crying Nazi is the norm.

This isn't hyperbole. I'm speaking very literally. If someone is willing to publicly announce to the world they are a Nazi, if they are willing to appropriate the imagery or the language, knowing what it means culturally, knowing the history, they are making a clear statement of both their complete lack of concern for the most basic norms of civil, human interaction as well as their self-awarded license to do violence any time they think they can get away with it and a lot of times when they can't. Don't tell me about group dynamics and kids wanting to belong. There are a whole bunch of options available before you have to reach so far down into the barrel you're coming up with an SS insignia. If you declare yourself a Nazi, if you even toy with it for attention, there is something horribly, horribly wrong.

There are no cool Nazis. Even the occasional well appointed, moderately thoughtful front man like Spencer, or the poor, dumb teenager who's going to realize what a big mistake he's made six months from now, is going to be toting a bunch of s***head losers behind him, every f***ing time. No one who isn't a Nazi, who has experienced a group of Nazis, wants to hang out with Nazis again. They are nasty, ambulatory garbage with stupid haircuts. I'm not talking about politics. I'm talking about the real world that people actually live in. They destroy business for bars they begin frequenting. People start avoiding any place they show up because there's always some f***ing horrible s*** going on. Someone getting picked on, someone getting beat up, someone almost getting beat up, racial slurs, women being sexually abused, bartenders threatened, everyone threatened, I shouldn't need to go through this list. I don't know why I'm going through it.

They will make an entire working class neighborhood a f***ing pain in the a** for as long as they're tolerated. They'll harass businesses, mess with neighbors, and just make everyone's f***ing life s***ty as long and as much as they can until they wind up doing something so dumb and s***ty they wind up going to prison. A good deal of the time, that's murdering someone. I haven't even mentioned the special attention people of color get, of course. Or gay people. Or trans-people. Or, God forbid, they decide anyone even looks Jewish. Do I really have to? They will do whatever they can to make any member of a vulnerable group feel constantly threatened, at the very least. At the most, well, you read the papers.

I don't know how some people have remained so sheltered that you don't not to know this already, or that you can't figure it out. They're f***ing Nazis.

So, see, what some of us who have hung out around scenes that suffered the occasional fascist outbreak or incursion, or working class neighborhoods, or bars where they start showing up, the kind of place that Ms. Farrow doesn't get to visit much anymore, I guess, is that Nazism isn't a political affiliation, in a lot of ways it has very little to do with politics – declaring oneself a Nazi is a public announcement that the person so declaring suffers from a severe, comprehensive personality disorder, that they are an out of control, looking for any kind of trouble they can find, jerk, and that they cannot be trusted to behave like a human being for more than 30 seconds.

I'm sure a lot of this may be hard for wealthy Hollywood stars to relate to, or some of my less vulnerable, whiter, straighter, more insulated friends. If you haven't been forced to be around these people in a real world environment, it's probably hard to wrap your head around just how f***ing odious these pricks are in person, but it's not a f***ing joke. It's not a game. And it's NOT f***ING POLITICS. They are, wherever they appear openly, a clear, present threat to anyone in their vicinity, anyone they can get in a vulnerable position. Anyone they can get their hands on.

The point is that, past the immediate function of antifa actually defending other, more peaceful, protestors (which is almost all they generally wind up doing. Just ask Cornell West and the line of clergy that were attacked during the battle of Charlottesville), probably the most important function the antifa strategy serves is to signal to the worst of the protestors on the right, the true fascists, that their presence will SIMPLY NOT BE TOLERATED IN THE COMMUNITY.

That there is an active, hostile presence in the the area, willing to put their bodies and liberty on the line, in order to protect themselves and the community, particularly the most vulnerable. To STOP them before they get a foothold, to f***ing hurt them badly enough that they won't come back the next weekend to f*** up a show, or bust up a bar, or beat up a f***ing trans kid, or knife someone, or shoot someone. Or shoot a bunch of people. Or drag some poor old black janitor behind a car till he dies.

Are the police going to protect people during these demonstrations? Are they going to protect the community? I'm sure the conventional liberals reading will be saddened to learn the police are sometimes less than helpful in these situations. Take a look at the video of the man firing his gun into the crowd in Charlottesville in front of the line of cops. If the cops aren't actively on the side of the Nazis (and some of them sure are), they either aren't going to or won't be able to stop the worst of what's going to happen once the fascists establish a beachhead. And that's what they do, every time, if they're not stopped immediately and decisively anytime they raise their f***ing heads.

I'm a free speech absolutist. I don't think government should ever interfere with the free expression of its citizens, I strongly support the ACLU's work defending the civil right of the Nazis to rally without interference from government. I also believe in the free exchange of ideas in the public sphere, that it is fundamentally wrong for a private citizen to use violence against words. Unless those words are a clear threat. And that's what Nazi symbolism, Nazi speech, is. That's the purpose of identifying as a Nazi and anyone who's been around them, knows that.

Talk all the racist s*** you want. If you put on a swastika, you are declaring your intent to act, and act violently.

The antifa strategy is based on the same realization that the indie music scenes came to very early on - you either deal with fascists the first f***ing time they show their faces or they're going to settle in and begin calling their pals to let them know they've found a nice, comfortable place to begin tormenting people. Because they are f***ing Nazis. Does the strategy sometimes play badly on the larger, political stage? Yeah, it does. Do a******* sometimes take put on a mask and use it as an excuse to act like a*******? Obviously, what human political activity doesn't have that problem and how do you stop someone from putting on a mask and acting like an a******? Do those using the strategy attack people they shouldn't? Yes, and they should be held to account when they do. But what's the alternative? Every vulnerable person at a demonstration waiting to get stabbed? Allowing your community to be targeted? They're going to find find the weak, the vulnerable, the people they can hurt, and they're going to do it. They're going to terrorize the gay kid and the queer kid and the trans kid and the black kid and the Jewish kid and any f***ing person that gets in their way, if there's a few of them in a group. Again, because they're f***ing Nazis.

It seems weird to have to say something like that, that there should be any confusion about it's meaning, but it's worth repeating - because they are f***ing Nazis.

The picture I've included with this post is a shot of 18-year-old Daniel Borden from Charlottesville, during the battle. You may also recognize him from the pictures showing him and his friends beating a lone black man they had cut off from his friends and gotten alone. They're using pipes and sticks while their victim is down, trying to cover up and get away. Daniel has a criminal history of bullying other kids, threatening to go on shooting sprees, and being exactly the kind of f***ing obnoxious hunk of s*** you'd expect.

Look at that picture. Look at that face. Look at the glee in those eyes, the sweaty ecstasy at finally being free of the daily torture of having to restrain the evil fury in his young, mutilated soul. Just waiting for the chance to take it all out on someone who can't fight back. "Yay! I get to hit people!" That's the face of Nazism. that's what modern Nazism is, and that's all it is.

The entire motive force is hatred and the dumb, animal joy at their ability to cause pain. Not national identity, pride, values, none of that. Even if some of those concepts animated the original Nazi party, that's not what it's about anymore. It's about sheer, unmitigated hatred and sociopathic violence. That's f***ing it. There's no talking to it, there is no discourse with it. There's just violence met with violence. That's what they're here for, that's why they exist, it's the only language they understand. They are bloodhthirsty losers whose mission it is to cause people around them pain, but they're also, like all bullies, cowards - so all it takes is a few people to stand the f*** up to them and let them know they're not welcome and send them on their way, preferably with an a**-kicking to keep the memory fresh. You either stand up and make it clear you're not sitting back down until they're gone, or you give up your bar, your neighborhood, maybe your town. (Does this map onto anything greater? Look at the 20th century and you tell me.)

So it seems to me that the way to react to kids willing to put their bodies between the vulnerable and people like I just described is to thank them. Even if you're rich and white and you don't actually hang out anywhere you may actually run into any real trouble like this, or live in a neighborhood that's been victimized. These kids are putting themselves in harm's way to make it harder for people whose express intent is to hurt others, sometimes others who can't defend themselves. Thank them, or if that's too much, at least don't try to read them out of what you'd like to consider "your" safe, comfortable, little protest in between posting clips of John Oliver and "Drumpf" memes. There are some of us who want to be able to go to a show or a protest without having to deal with some dumb f*** in a pepe t-shirt and swastika trying to stab us in the back or run us over."

I don't know that I support Antifa with some of their actions, but I can say, it's BS to equivocate Antifa to Nazis. One literally wants most of us dead while the other does and says some stupid things at worst. Not the same level of a****** at all.