Judging The New Front Office After Their First Wave Of Moves!

When we get George and we have cap space to add another damn good piece, people will be grateful for the changes.

 

I don't really agree that magic wouldn't have had a problem signing FA's ever since Kobe did his Achilles. After Kobe got injured no star wanted to come here because they knew we wouldn't be able to compete, and when you don't have a plan to compete, it's hard to really sell someone on a hobbled 35+ Kobe or a bunch of unproven draft picks after that (Clarkson, Randle and Russell).

Now if PG comes here, and a few of those draft picks have developed into rotation players, then you got something to pitch a star. Good young coach + you (the star being pitched) + PG + two top 2 draft picks + bunch of young energetic guys + a bit of cap space to get another decent player or maybe brook Lopez.

None of the above means anything without PG though, and he isn't coming because of magic. All the other stuff like LA, weather, business opportunities is largely irrelevant these days with the advent of social media and living wherever they want in the offseason. At the end of the day, great players want to generally play with other great players. We haven't had that calibre of player for a while to entice anyone.

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Also I'd like to add, I agree that this is the same plan as Mitch and Jim. The key difference is we may sign a top 10-20 player and have one of our top draft picks show signs of being a future all star before pitching other free agents next time. That's the big difference that time and luck have afforded us.

 

What makes you think there would be opportunities to dump MozDeng at the deadline next year? Where's the guarantee?

Russell, Mozgov, and Deng were 3 players the Lakers wanted off this team asap. Why wait?

We killed two birds with one stone. AND got a starting C in the process.

You are 1) overvaluing Russell's value, 2) undervaluing Brook Lopez, and 3) underestimating the difficulty of dumping bad contracts.

 

right. and i'd add that if mitch was still here right now, he'd have the same shot at george that we currently do. which is all that matters. without george, we're in the EXACT same spot we've been for a while now. and it's not a good one.

because it always happens. i'm sure morey can dump ryan anderson if some top-notch FA commits to him this summer.

and lopez is either a piece or an expiring contract. not both. if you're touting his acquisition as team-building, it means you plan on keeping him, which the lakers clearly do not.

russell's value is what it was. they tried. what some are arguing is that better organizations wouldn't have had russell dragged through the mud for two years. tom thibodeau was pumping up kris dunn's disappointing a** like five minutes before he was traded. you think dunn should have more value than russell? that's our fault, in part.

 

If by same plan you mean clear space and land FAs then yes its the same plan. But there are two key differences.

1. the previous leadership signed two HORRIBLE deals that ate up cap space. Moz and Deng could have easily been no name guys paid nothing and we would have about the same performance in terms of wins. Its hard to sign FAs when a huge chunk of your cap is sitting at the end of your bench drinking all the Gatorade.

2. It had become clear that the big names wanted nothing to do with Jimmy Boy and perhaps even Mitch. Listen, Mitch was a fantastic GM for years and did some great things for the Lakers, but that time has passed. Perhaps its more Jimmy then Mitch, but it was clear no body wanted to be in LA. With Magic in the drivers seat, it seems like folks are already interested in coming to LA. Bottom line is Magic can't coach basketball, but he is a fantastic leader and business man. Players trust that and know that if they come here they will learn from Magic, not just basketball, but perhaps some business too. I just thank God the Lakers don't have PJ around too.

So yes, same plan, but with money to actually accomplish it, and management that players actually want to play for.

 

those horrible deals came after striking out several times with the original flawed plan. if the new group strikes out a few times and there's a sudden cap explosion, we might see more mozdengs. why? because they are frequently the outcome of this kind of plan.

tbh, the big fish we were chasing all ended up duds, too: howard, melo, aldridge. so rare for a top FA to switch teams. and has one ever switched to a last place team?

 

Always? The only team in a worse situation than Brooklyn is Brooklyn. There were no other takers. If Russell had busted a knee half way thru the season we were SOL.

Why not both? Lopez is a fantastic addition to our team next season. Gives us production and another year to develop Zubac. And he expires at the right time so I see no downsides. It's much better than an expiring that can't play. I don't see how this is even debatable.

Like I said, Russell wasn't dragged through the mud by Magic and Rob. That's the previous FO's doing.

 

I don't have a problem with the trade and clearing cap space. I admit I was less than thrilled with our draft. Maybe time proves me wrong.

 

Well I definitely agree that it could be worse with PJ and the Moz and Deng deals were terrible. But when those deals occurred many of us did what guys are doing now - tried to rationalize the whole thing.

And I get it. We just got our new point guard who most people love and hope is renewed. But I keep feeling the same way - that we've seen this movie several times and it always ends bad.

So my thoughts at this point are the same. Show me. Bring in the free agent. Make the deal for George. Something. Anything. Then I will fall back and tip my hat to Magic and Co.

 

I disagree, those terrible signings were the result of panic induced by striking out over and over again. Said panic resulted in throwing tons of money at guys who ended up barely playing. Less money could have been thrown at younger "roll the dice" players on shorter contracts. The whole thing was just a mess and it had to end.

 

Also, Magic has been involved in our pitches over the years that failed. Sure, I hope it will be different now that he is in charge, but still.

Again, we've heard these great plans before. I'll give them their props when they actually do it.

 

Just as a reminder, this is next year's UFA class.... let's not act like this is any other FA class.

Lebron James
Russell Westbrook
Paul George -----------> heart set on becoming a Laker
Klay Thompson
Kemba Walker
Marcin Gortat
Nikola Jokic
Nikola Vucevic
John Wall
DeAndre Jordan
LeMarcus Aldridge
Carmelo Anthony
Tobias Harris

Clearing cap space for free agency is a great plan. The problem was never the plan. The problem is the execution of the plan.

 

Sorry you are upset but I'm not quite sure how you can be so critical of a multi-yr plan after seeing the initial moves.

Consider this a construction project for a beautiful 100 story sky scraper. You are complaining about the ugly skeleton after a month of construction because it looks nothing like the end game which will take 2 yrs to complete.

Just saying.

 

I think pelinka is probably a good negotiater and understands the cap well, however, personally I'm not really that high on Magic in his current position. Watching his comments over the years and his stint as a coach, I don't think he is a great judge of talent.

But to be frank, neither is Phil Jackson and if Jeanie could of had her way, I'm sure original she would have hoped to be running the lakers with him. So I think we dodged a bullet there because Phil is a lot worse as a GM than Magic, but unlike Magic, he doesn't empower smarter people to do the jobs he isn't very good at - which I think is a real strength of magic's.

Ideally, we would of brought jerry back for 2-3 years to help transition his son into the GM position. Jerry is the best evaluator of talent, coaches and playing systems in the league. He has shown the ability to construct a championship calibre team numerous times. No use crying over spilt milk though, I'm willing to back the current front office!

 

pretty much. has there been a time when a team needed to clear space to sign a FA, and they couldn't? gs almost got howard a few years back by dumping a HUGE amount of money in a very short period of time. i remember how stupid the teams that had been hoarding cap space for years looked at that moment.

how what is debatable? it's hard to get excited about a player that management has basically indicated won't be here after next year. my point is that you can't count it in both columns. either the trade brought in a useful part of the team, or it brought salary relief. if lopez becomes an integral player, there's no salary relief. i don't like rentals.

at least we have his bird rights, though, so when we strike out in FA again, we might be able to keep our own guy?

they didn't make any very supportive statements. coming out publicly and calling ingram the only untouchable was just bad business, whether you believed it or not.

lots of hindsight bias. deng was a popular target on these forums, i'll remind you.

and you are right, panic sets in after years of the same strategy failing. we're now assuming success. which is what we did then, too. but jim buss? that's all we've got? mitch is boring? that's the reason it's different? lonzo ball? i'm just not sold on how what is happening at this moment isn't what was happening at several other moments in recent lakers history.

winning the lottery is a good plan, too. like this one, its execution requires the cooperation of events out of one's control.

i'll be the first to eat crow if george and john wall sign here next year or something. but like elgin keeps saying, i've seen this movie before. a lot.

 

2 things... yes again 2.

1. The League and its players have changed dramatically over the last 10 years. Aside from SA, the "old school" NBA method just doesn't work anymore. Having a guy like Mitch who was great within the old school, follow the rules, hard nosed league just wasn't going to work. Pelinka may not have any basketball pedigree, but the dude knows business and how to charm players. He may or may not prove to be a good GM and only time will tell, but he already has a one up on Mitch when it comes to relating to players.

2. Of course Magic being in charge offers much more weight then just helping with the pitch. "Hey trust me, those guys over there are great" is completely different than "Hey trust me, I am driving this ship"

Again they may strike out too, but they deserve a chance and have made some moves to set them self up for success. In a couple years it might be worse, it might be great, but we wont know that til then.

 

Don't underestimate the power that boring has for younger players. We live in a world where having cool uniforms plays a part in deciding which college HS players commit to. Players seeing that Kobe was steering a sinking ship into the rocks, that Jim was a fool, and that Mitch was a bore empacts a generation of folks who think that the best thing in the world is lots of likes of facebook. The game has changed.

 

fair enough. but i still need to see it to believe it.

the major counter argument is that paul george is the first player in a long time to try to force his way to the lakers (ball, too). would those things have happened if mitch/jim were still in charge? i don't know; we can't know. but it is one thing that's different.

 

current depth chart:

ball/?
clarkson/hart
ingram/deng/brewer
randle/nance/kuzma
lopez/zubac/black

that's 12 guaranteed contracts, with bryant, nwaba, ennis, and thomas robinson out there as possibilities to stay on as well.

there's not room to develop that many young players on the same roster.