DRAFT TALK Thread: Looking Like Lonzo

Discussion in 'Lakers Discussion' started by Lakerman JSJ, May 9, 2017.

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  1. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    I think a more athletic Kendall Marshall is what Ball could look like early in his career. Marshall was a very, very good passer he just had the body of a 45 year old man.
     
    therealdeal, Jun 4, 2017
    #1601
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  2. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

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    He's not a defender, and shooting is suspect. Abundant evidence for those claims. That's why I trade the pick.
     
    trodgers, Jun 4, 2017
    #1602
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  3. LTLakerFan

    LTLakerFan - Lakers Legend -

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    You might. What can be said except odds are outstanding Magic won't IMO. Not like Magic was known for his lockdown D either.
     
    LTLakerFan, Jun 4, 2017
    #1603
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  4. LTLakerFan

    LTLakerFan - Lakers Legend -

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    OK I did go back and look at the marketing video and I was mis-remembering some. Arms are not very big yet and just starting to build on the traps. I edited my other response too. Still I think he will come in stronger than DAR did though as a rookie for the start of the season.
     
    LTLakerFan, Jun 4, 2017
    #1604
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  5. OmarE

    OmarE - Lakers Starter -

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    And if he proves you wrong? Then what? I think we're better off developing our young team to hopefully get to the warriors level success than trading young talent for a couple of 7-8th seeds.
     
    OmarE, Jun 4, 2017
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  6. SFGOLDRUSHER

    SFGOLDRUSHER - Lakers Starter -

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    Trading #2 sounds silly for George when if he comes here he needs to wait his butt up till next year . That would be taking away from the team he wants to join. If you're him and you're on coming to LA it's pure stupidity to make us trade for him unless we're unloading Moz/Deng on them.
     
    SFGOLDRUSHER, Jun 5, 2017
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  7. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

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    There's a flawed premise here. All of this is prospecting. What if he is worse than we dare imagine? What if Fox or Jackson is better? What if none of them are that good? What if getting George and Lopez or Zaza now makes us better than all other alternatives. I've already considered the unlikely prospects that Ball becomes a star.
     
    trodgers, Jun 5, 2017
    #1607
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  8. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

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    Your posts have descended into a) never directly engaging with me, which is fine (I know I hurt your feelings in the past) and b) backhanded attempts to demonstrate your basketball acumen. The latter isn't fine in a discussion of basketball. "People who watch basketball" agree. Heard of the No True Scotsman? You engage in it frequently.

    Draft Express has Ball at #2, and I know that's your go-to site. There are, however, other sites with analysis.
    NBA Draft.net has Josh Jackson ranked ahead of Ball, despite Ball going #2. They have three other players within 1 point of Ball.
    Fox Sports has Ball #3, behind Tatum.

    I've never said it's crazy to take Ball at #2. My claims are humble: I'm not sure he's the best pick at #2, and I'd be incredibly willing to deal this pick.

    Meanwhile, the claims of Lakers fans are now becoming absurd - and they're clearly of the name-calling, don't engage in argument sort:
    Ball might join the team, and we might win 10-15 more games, but how much of that is going to be Ball's doing? Does anyone believe he'll be an above average NBA player next season? We won 9 games more than in 2015-16, we added Ingram, but who would say that "Ingram helped us win 9 games more"? He was a below average NBA player last season - and he's my favorite Laker.

    What's the claim here? Magic likes him because he reminds him of Magic? That doesn't mean he'll draft the guy. If the argument is, "Magic didn't lock down people, neither will Ball, so Ball will have Magic-like impact," nevermind. That's too crazy for anyone to believe. So that's clearly not what you're suggesting.

    I think that when a clear favorite for the pick emerges, we tend to see in fans' behavior the Halo Effect and Entitlement Effect. We saw this last year with Jhalil - most people on the board suddenly forget that he cannot defend and fall in love with him.
     
    trodgers, Jun 5, 2017
    #1608
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  9. abeer3

    abeer3 - Lakers Legend -

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    this is the point i've been trying to make. we're seeing the rosiest possible projection for ball, but no similar rosy projections for other potential high picks.

    if ball's kidd with a jumpshot (i'm not even going to get into the magic johnson talk, kidd's enough of a stretch), then:

    fox is wall
    tatum is prime danny granger
    fultz is dwyane wade with a jumpshot
    josh jackson is...lebron? a bigger, faster jimmy butler?

    the point is: if we're going to assume the best of whomever we choose in the draft, the future is bright. not just ball, anyone.

    the sobering reality is that even top 5 draft picks tend to be average players (sometimes far worse) as often as they are stars. which is why people should always be open to trading picks for established young stars.

    again, all that said, if i'm trading my pick for george, i want moz or deng attached. not because george isn't worth the #2 pick. he is. definitely. it's just that his impending FA and interest in the lakers changes the negotiation.
     
    abeer3, Jun 5, 2017
    #1609
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  10. tada

    tada - Lakers All Star -

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    Kidd hovered around 10-12 ppg for the vast majority of his career. He was a rather inefficient scorer. Ball is excellent at moving without the ball and getting open shots, whether at the rim or behind the 3pt line. He kills Kidd in head-to-head numbers in college. l have very little doubt that Ball will get his 10 ppg more efficiently than Kidd.

    Their playmaking ability and defense is what should be compared. Because honestly, I think Ball is in a different class when it comes to scoring.
     
    tada, Jun 5, 2017
    #1610
  11. LTLakerFan

    LTLakerFan - Lakers Legend -

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    I don't know how much clearer I can be. Read my thumb strokes on my phone. IMO. From everything I've been reading and looking at some clips, I think Ball will be who Magic takes to give him and Luke the best shot at playing the up tempo game with team wide ball movement encouraged that THEY WANT TO PLAY. If not then f*** me, I was wrong along with a lot of other people here.

    I DO NOT think Magic will trade the pick. That is my take. YMMV.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2017
    LTLakerFan, Jun 5, 2017
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  12. KRL

    KRL - Lakers 6th Man -

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    You will be right!

    ALL-4-BALL!!!
     
    KRL, Jun 5, 2017
    #1612
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  13. KRL

    KRL - Lakers 6th Man -

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    I watched Kidd in his one year at Cal then his jump to the pros. I will say this their games are extremely similar. When I saw Ball I just had flashbacks of Kidd. The difference are Kidd is stronger and better defender coming into the league but Ball is a much better shooter/scorer. The passing and intangibles are pretty equal.
     
    KRL, Jun 5, 2017
    #1613
  14. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    therealdeal, Jun 5, 2017
    #1614
  15. OX1947

    OX1947 - Lakers MVP -

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    Now Now. Let's all be nice and positive and get a long.

    Lonzo Ball will be a Laker. Will he be a franchise player? Probably. Will he be whack? Probably. Will the Lakers suck? Probably. Will the Lakers start winning now that everyone on the team filmed themselves working out? Probably. It's all about fun.
     
    OX1947, Jun 5, 2017
    #1615
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  16. OX1947

    OX1947 - Lakers MVP -

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    NO WAY!
     
    OX1947, Jun 5, 2017
    #1616
  17. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    Hey man don't lump us all together that way. :D

    I've said Fox has Conley upside and Ball could look like Marshall early on. I may be one of the few that thinks Jackson is a decent prospect. I talked about Tatum months ago as a Paul Pierce/Rudy Gay type. Hell I talked about Isaac and Markannen too.

    I think there are some fans that are overly excited but many of us are just excited in general with a 2nd pick. Now we've got too long to wait before the draft so fans are finding themselves on different sides of the kids. I admit that some of the enthusiasm is extreme but not all of it!
     
    therealdeal, Jun 5, 2017
    #1617
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  18. Jaguar

    Jaguar - Lakers 6th Man -

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    The Lakers will take the Ball and run...
     
    Jaguar, Jun 5, 2017
    #1618
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  19. Khmrp

    Khmrp - Lakers Legend -

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    I trade down considering how deep this draft is, unlikely but IF Vlade is inlove with ball and is willing to do 5/10 for 2, its an easy yes for me. Or Phi offers 3 with our pick back or better of ours or their 18 pick, i take that all day. After russell/ingram draft i no longer see the #2 draft as much of an immediate difference maker even though im a big Ingram fan. Its rare we'll see another 03' draft again or even kobe draft yr where almost everyone in the lotto made a name themselves. Last yr draft was supposedly rich with talent too, statistically though, was one of the WORSE draft class in a long time
     
    Khmrp, Jun 5, 2017
    #1619
  20. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    That's with the assumption any teams really want to move up that badly. I don't see any scenario where the Kings, who are in desperate need of game changers, give up two lottery picks for one. I don't think the Sixers are desperate for a point guard, they want to use Simmons in that role. It's less common to move up in the draft in the NBA than it is in say the NFL.

    If the Lakers were to trade the #2 pick, I'd hope it's for a proven player instead of down in the draft.
     
    therealdeal, Jun 5, 2017
    #1620
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