Totally. Nerdy as it is, I've been working on a story that's mostly based off of Brubaker's run where Orson Randall comes into the picture. By introducing Orson I can kill so many birds with that stone. Why he seems to get so tired after using the fist, why he only seems to use one fist, why he doesn't know how to use it in other situations, help him center more as a fighter, etc etc. Did you finish the series by the way Sama?
Finished episode 7 of Ironfist. I was hoping there were only 10 episodes, but when I saw there were 13, and I was only half way through, I kind of want to stop and watch something else. It's just not good. The fighting did get a bit better though.
I actually think both Luke Cage and Iron Fist would have benefited from being only 8 episodes long as oppose to 13. And then have The Defenders be 13 instead of 8 episodes.
I agree, but add Jessica Jones to that list. So far the order of best to worst for these shows is: 1. Daredevil 2. Luke Cage 3. Jessica Jones 8. Ironfist
I did and I am not sure that the second half was any better than the first. It certainly had much higher highs and better pacing, but I think the fractured narrative, wrong tone, terrible choreography, just served up a rather unsatisfying finale. Like I said above I think that the whole thing is fixed with a better vision of what the character should be and how the show should feel, but I would have stopped watching it had it not been for the defenders. It felt like a CW attempt to be gritty. Now that I think about it, if felt like I was watching Gotham season 1( Gotham had some good characters but was just all over the place). I hate to beat a dead horse, but I watch "Big Trouble in Little China" after finishing Iron Fist and while the satirical edge/goofy sudo-protagonist to that movie would never fit, but the tone, look, pacing, and even the style of choreography(I realize the 80's level in the choreography but Carpenter at least tried to make it over the top AND visually appealing). I think what makes it harder to swallow is that the first scene is great. Shoeless hobo mystic kung fu warrior walks down the street in NY to "fresh and clean" by OutKast.... Samurai Champloo here we come!... But then it becomes a bad DD remake...OH and yeah no damn dragon... I really think Iron Fist could have been stregthed by a format like OitNB, where you current narrative is interrupted by telling the background of the characters. It would have been great to get actual kun-lun and watch him grow as he grows in NY, watch him wrestle with his desires and how they clash with what he was taught. Watch him confront the dragon as he confronts his enemy... I hope Netflix gets a better show runner and that Defenders is nothing like Iron Fist.
I liked Jessica Jones and the pacing. Luke Cage though...ugh. Honestly, I do video editing and I have done some "whacking" down of documentaries and such. I'm fairly confident I could slash Luke Cage down to 6-7 episodes and not lose anything. Iron Fist and Luke Cage are actually neck and neck as it pertains to the "Worst Marvel Netflix Series." I think the main things I hated in Luke Cage were casting and characters. Diamondback wasn't even needed. Shades was cringe worthy. And I've never been a fan of Alfre Woodard. In the things I've seen her in she overacts a bit. By cutting out all the Diamondback related stuff, you also eliminate Shades. And then reduce Woodard's role to allow Cottonmouth a little more room to breath and be the big bad the whole series. That cuts out probably 4-5 episodes worth of stuff.
I still think the second half is better than the first because the plot actually moves. There's so much stagnation in the first 4 episodes that things just get boring. Add in some really lame set pieces, bad acting, poor casting, and of course the lack luster choreography and you're relying entirely upon Finn Jones and the people playing the Meachums to be compelling with shaky dialogue. It's just setting them up for failure. Like I said a while back the show is characterized by missed opportunities due to either Scott Buck not caring or not having enough money. However, given that this show had the same production costs as the others, I'm not really sure how this one turned out so bad and the others looked mostly very good. Buck is just not a good showrunner and it makes me really sad for Inhumans. Defenders is being lead by the two guys who were in charge of Daredevil S1 so I have a lot more faith in that product. To get into my idea for IF2 (and feel free to hate it if you want, it's fan fiction ): I'd base the entire season around Danny feeling inadequate as the Fist. He frequently has to convince everyone who he is and how important his is in the first season. He's very upfront and has an inflated sense of self-purpose. In the second season, I'd make it about him struggling to feel like a real hero. It's set after the Defenders so now he knows there's others like him and in some ways better than him. So what makes him special? The first episode I'd start with him taking out some common criminals, a handful of them trying to rob a liquor store maybe. He handles them easily, but destroys the place in the process. I figure they should also add stylistic changes to Danny's fight scenes. Just about every scene they had was cut 100 times and you lose any sense of the actual fight. It's lazy storytelling designed to hide bad fighters. In my show, Danny wears a mask now so you can use a stunt double. I've thought about maybe even doing what they do in the comics and having little boxes that show up in the middle of the fight to say which move he's using at the time. The fight would pause for a second so the watcher could read it and then Danny would execute a badass fighting move. The store owner is angry instead of grateful and the cops tell him that he should have let the professionals handle it. As he leaves he's confronted with Zhou Chang. Chang is a different person this time though. He's no longer a drunk, he's focused and deadly. Chang beats Danny up badly until he's barely rescued by Luke and (fill in one of the female protagonists). Zhou disappears and they all take Danny to get cleaned up by Claire. Meanwhile Colleen is facing similar issues. She's now abandoned by her "family" and Danny is busy with his new friends and responsibilities. She's struggling to understand her place now and what she's supposed to do with herself. Her dojo is empty and barren. She's drinking alone. She goes over her old Hand stuff and the things Bakuto had given to her. She heads off to start the underground fighting again. We get a look at Joy Meachum who is enjoying her stay as the head of Rand. Rand is posting record profits and she's being heralded as the reason the company has swung around so quickly after such turmoil. She gets out of a press conference and heads to her office. She opens a drawer and takes out a folder marked IF. Sips a drink and contacts Davos. She texts "are we ready" and he replies "not yet". She sips again, muses, and they cut away. Danny wakes up in Luke's apartment above the barber shop embarrassed and as confused as ever. The others try to comfort him, but he's obstinate. They leave him to meditate, but he struggles with it. He hears Lei Kung in his head again: "you're not ready!" Danny snaps out of it sweating and breathing hard. He's healed a little bit, but he's still in bad shape. The group tries to figure out who the guy was that attacked him. Zhou Chang is alone in a nice apartment talking to himself. He says he's tracked down the Iron Fist. He tells nobody that the Iron Fist had unexpected help and that it'll take time to overcome them. As he's talking Zhou walks around and you realize he's killed the previous owners of the apartment. He heads toward a mirror. In the mirror there's someone else looking back at him, an older Asian man. The man in the mirror says "do what you must. In the meantime find another weakness". The episode ends with a cut to Colleen victorious in the ring. It's all fairly formulaic, but it's all I've thought about so far. Really I'm setting up the emotional places of Iron Fist and Colleen in this season and trying to fix some of the mistakes of the past season. Namely that Danny thinks he's so great, but through the season I'm going to reveal that he didn't "earn" the mantle as much as he just took it and tried to use it for his own means (traveling to NY). That way we reveal that he's really just bravado. I'd also introduce Orson Randall at some point in the series. I want to show that someone else is using the Iron Fist chi which is why Danny can only channel it into his one hand instead of anything else. Not to mention Orson can help teach Danny how to embody a hero and some other tricks the chi can do. I feel like the using it in only one hand is another lazy way of writing it too. He should be able to do so much more.
Jessica Jones was boring as s*** to me. I barely made it through. Luke Cage was a few steps down from Dare Devil for me but better than Jessica Jones IMO
Different strokes. My wife's favorite character is Jessica Jones. She really identified with Jessica's desire to be great, but fear of inadequacy.
Thanks! Just an outline of course. There's nothing but room for adjustments, additions, subtractions, etc. The key is making him a relatable person and giving him a relatable issue. The rest sort of revolves around that. In the first season he's searching for his purpose I guess, but does he ever truly get it? Does he ever truly understand what he's supposed to do? I don't feel like he does.
I think each show, other than IF does different things well. DD is great for the internal issues he struggle and great action. JJ has much better character development and wrestles with huge social issues and their consequences. LC is the more fun to watch to me and feels like a much more straight forward TV show that has been highly polished in terms of visuals and music. Each are really different kinds of shows meant to appeal to different people. DD is a straight forward action, JJ is a psychological thriller, LC is a modern day blacksploitation adaptation. IF should have been a modern day kung fu show, but that didn't happen. In terms of my preference DD is easily my favorite, but that is because I strongly identify with MM on many levels. Followed by LC because I just flatly enjoyed watching it in spite of some of the silliness. JJ is last because its really hard to watch due to the emotional content. I work at a detention center for kids and don't always enjoy watching the same stuff I deal with all day on tv. In terms of what order I think they belong in regarding their quality of art. I actually think JJ is the best hands down. The character development, the villain, the story telling, pacing, etc. I am not sure I would want to watch it again, but I think its the best by far. As for LC I think it has some story issues for sure and a crumby big villain who is representative of the kinds of villians that come out of that genre, but man it was so well crafted. I feel like the director/producer fussed over every little detail of the show, if the big bad was better who knows how good it could be. Lastly I would put DD, not because its bad, only because its slow in places, suffers from pacing a bit, and in the end is just super straight forward. I think that is why it is the most well liked as it is the most accessible, but it doesn't take the risks the other shows do.
