1. Azndude2190

    Azndude2190 - Lakers 6th Man -

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    Yep totally agree with you here Barn. Demand for healthcare is inelastic and inevitable. If prices go down, that doesn't make people buy more healthcare because they don't get sick any more often and if prices go up, people won't buy any less healthcare because, well, being sick sucks. People aren't going to shop around and haggle for services when their life is on the line. As a result, there is no incentive for companies to lower prices.

    That and nothing in our current economy has led me to believe people actually value competition. The trend has been towards large corporations (BofA, Chase, Wells Fargo, Facebook, Google, Apple, Amazon, Ebay, Comcast, AT&T, Charter, Aetna, Blue Cross, Humana, etc) who don't care about individual customers and their needs. Competition has been negatively affected by things like anti competitive business practices, non competition agreements and price fixing.

    Yea there are problems with single payer and I would be okay with compromising on a public option, but we know what a completely free market approach to healthcare looks like and needless to say, i'm not really a big fan.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2017
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  2. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    I agree with you, but the answer to me isn't making education free, it's holding colleges accountable. Money funnels into colleges as student tuition skyrockets for a worse product (college degrees these days are generally useless). Where is that money going? Not to the professors and not back into the students. The schools aren't being renovated at some enormous rate. It's the executives in charge of the schools that pocket the money and continue the slaughterhouse assembly line of kids being pushed through for 30-75,000 dollars and almost zero actual education.

    School reform is among the chief things necessary in this country. I recommend all kids go to Junior college before a 4-year University unless they have a scholarship. Learn a trade. Take time to figure out what you want so you don't spend 4-6 years in an institution that's built to make itself money (yes, state schools included) instead of educating our youth.

    I think the fight starts in our K-12 and I wouldn't mind investing further funding in teachers so that education isn't viewed as a chore to kids and instead of viewed as a privilege. Not to mention public schools need a tremendous amount of shakeup to help break students from 1880 style factory work teaching methods.

    okay sorry. End rant.
     
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  3. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    Nothing? Competition is everything. The world is improved through competition.
     
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  4. revgen

    revgen - Lakers 6th Man -

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    ^We're on a sports team forum for crying out loud. ;-)
     
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  5. Azndude2190

    Azndude2190 - Lakers 6th Man -

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    I know the value of competition, I just don't see it in our economy in the truest sense. You essentially have a handful of corporations running everything.
     
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  6. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    Which I hate. I made that point earlier. The government should have very limited say in business and one of the things they should do is stop monopolies from forming. They've failed to do that.
     
  7. John3:16

    John3:16 Moderator Staff Member

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    It's really amazing how few companies there really are. You walk into McDonalds thinking they sell coke products, but really it's Coke who owns McDonalds. And I think there are 4 companies that own 98% of the media.

    Real competition is at the small business level. The big corporations are all in it together.
     
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  8. revgen

    revgen - Lakers 6th Man -

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    Part of the reason why these companies are so large is due to government interference in the first place. The biggest problem is the concept of limited liability, which shields investors from being sued if the company they invest in makes a mistake. Originally, limited liability was only supposed to be used for a limited but risky venture, such as building a bridge. Now it's given away carte blanche by state governments to anybody who wants it. Thanks to the State of California (and 49 others) I can create my own LLC easily without much fuss.

    Without limited liability, most of these massive corporations would be separated into smaller companies, since the investors would only be held liable for the mistake one of those small companies makes. A huge company becomes a massive liability for an investor if there is a lawsuit.

    Limited Liability should only be done through market forces. If a bridge needs to be built, and a construction company asks for limited liability in the contract, the client agrees, knowing it's a risky venture, then that's fine since the limited liability is earned in the marketplace.
     
  9. John3:16

    John3:16 Moderator Staff Member

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    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/31/...-could-go-from-one-to-zero-in-some-areas.html

    Parts of the country are in jeopardy of not having an insurer offering Obamacare plans next year.

    Many counties already have just one insurer offering health plans in the Obamacare marketplaces, and some of those solo insurers are showing signs that they are eyeing the exits.

    Humana announced this year that they’d be leaving the markets altogether next year. That means there are parts of Tennessee that will have no insurance options unless another insurer decides to enter.

    And Anthem, which operates in 14 states, is getting nervous, an industry analyst told Bloomberg News this week. Its departure would be a much bigger problem. According to an analysis of government data by Katherine Hempstead at the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, Anthem is currently the only insurance carrier in nearly 300 counties, serving about a quarter of a million people.

    As you can see on our map of those counties, an Anthem departure could leave coverage gaps in substantial parts of Georgia, Missouri, Kentucky, Ohio and Colorado, as well as smaller holes in other states. In places where no insurance company offers plans, there will be no way for Obamacare customers to use subsidies to buy health plans.

    Without an option for affordable coverage, they would become exempt from the health law’s mandate to obtain coverage. A result could be large increases in the number of Americans without health insurance.

    The Places Where Obamacare Markets Are Thin
    Humana said it would leave the marketplace next year, and Anthem is considering doing so. People may end up without options.

    Counties with only one insurance carrier in 2017. (Unshaded counties have at least two.)

    YELLOW: Humana
    DARK BURGUNDY: Anthem
    LIGHT BURGUNDY: Another single insurer
    Unshaded / WHITE: More than one insurer

    [​IMG]

    Source: Robert Wood Johnson Foundation analysis of Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services and insurance filing data.
    The Affordable Care Act set up new markets for people who don’t get insurance through work or the government. About 11 million people bought coverage on those state markets last year. But the system depends on the voluntary participation of private insurance companies. And some parts of the country have proved more popular for insurers than others.

    In the last year, several large commercial insurance companies decided to stop offering insurance in the markets. And some carriers that continued to offer Obamacare plans scaled back on the number of counties they served. In general, the places without much remaining insurance competition tend to be rural and expensive. (These areas tend to have fewer hospitals and doctors to choose from, reducing the ability of insurers to negotiate lower prices.)

    There are a number of solo-carrier counties served by other companies, but none by as many as Anthem, Ms. Hempstead’s analysis shows. Cigna, the company with the next-largest potential impact, is the only carrier in 14 counties, containing about 100,000 insurance customers.

    The Upshot
    Get the best of The Upshot’s news, analysis and graphics about politics, policy and everyday life.

    Anthem could well stay in the markets. It may simply be floating the option of departure to improve its negotiating position with the Trump administration over various regulatory requests. Or it may be expressing anxiety about the future. Insurers around the country are worried about the policy environment surrounding the Affordable Care Act. Mr. Trump has said that the health law “will explode” — a comment that may suggest he will do little to help the markets, or could even set the fuse.

    When insurers left communities in recent years, the Obama administration and local officials worked hard to recruit replacements. The Trump administration might not do the same. So far, no carrier has come forward publicly to say it will serve the counties in Tennessee that Humana is leaving.

    Insurers are making initial decisions about where to sell their products and how much to charge. But the final lineup of insurers is still several months away. Some states require companies to file initial requests this month, and the Trump administration has asked for price proposals in late June. If, after that, insurers decide the political or regulatory outlook looks less favorable, they will still have several months to leave the markets.
     
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  10. revgen

    revgen - Lakers 6th Man -

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    LINK

    Interesting piece. Rand Paul has been advocating for Trump to use his Executive Order powers to make co-ops (see the first page of this thread) legal under federal law. This will give the opportunity for those who aren't employed (such as AARP members) the chance to acquire insurance without having to go through an employer and avoid pre-existing condition prejudice that goes with trying to buy insurance individually. AARP will be able to act as a negotiator on the behalf of seniors who are part of the organization. If co-ops are legal, it becomes easier for Republicans to repeal Obamacare and not have to face the wrath of seniors (huge voting bloc) and other unemployed individuals who can't acquire insurance through an employer.
     
  11. John3:16

    John3:16 Moderator Staff Member

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    ObamaCare repealed and replaced by the House. We'll see what the Senate does.
     
  12. lakerfan2

    lakerfan2 - Lakers All Star -

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    I don't mind repealing ObamaCare, but the AHCA is not the path forward.

    Families with preexisting conditions will not be covered, forcing them to pay out of pocket for issues that already cost an arm and a leg WITH insurance. Just using Jimmy Kimmel's son as an example, but with his heart problems at such an early age, under this act, he would deal with financial problems his entire life had he not been insured.

    This is disgusting.
     
  13. Weezy

    Weezy Moderator Staff Member

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    A couple months ago I stepped on a rusty nail in a board on the side of my house. I went to urgent care and got a tetanus shot for free and some antibiotics also for free. I don't have insurance through a job, I have it through "Obamacare". Without it I'd have been screwed, so no, I'm not a fan of what Trump is doing here.
     
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  14. LTLakerFan

    LTLakerFan - Lakers Legend -

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    :Dfunny:

    ^^^
    F***! OWW!!
     
  15. John3:16

    John3:16 Moderator Staff Member

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    The Pre-Existing conditions part is still there.


    From The Hill: http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/331937-house-passes-obamacare-repeal

    Republicans counter by pointing to money for high risk pools. A last-minute addition of $8 billion more in funding for people with pre-existing conditions was key to winning over several wavering moderates, though many experts doubt whether that will be close to enough funding.
     
  16. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

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    I've had insurance trough 3 different employers since Obamacare was implemented, and never felt any kind of impact from Obamacare on my coverage or rates. I know it's anecdotal, but it still tells me all these complaints aren't universal. All of the Obamacare attacks feels like more of a partisan attack than a real concern.

    I'd like to hear a good reason why it's ok that this new plan doesn't cover preexisting conditions.
     
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  17. John3:16

    John3:16 Moderator Staff Member

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    After the vote count, Democrats sang "na na na good bye" to Republicans, insinuating that would lose seats due to this vote.

    Might be true, because Dems lost a lot of seats after the original ObamaCare vote.
     
  18. John3:16

    John3:16 Moderator Staff Member

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    It does cover them.
     
  19. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

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    We posted at the same time. I didn't see your post.

    If it covers preexisting conditions, it might not be so ad, but I have no trust in Trump or the Republicans, so I'm extremely skeptical.
     
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  20. John3:16

    John3:16 Moderator Staff Member

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    ^^^ I'd like for Obama Care to go away completely, but we'll just variations of it for the next 100 years.
     

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