Tank Tank Or Tank Tank Tank?

Lengthy post on Fox, but for what it's worth, I don't have any sense of what he is. I'm just providing some evidence to help people sort through some of the claims that have been made:

I don't know where to draw the line for "elite," but here are some PGs averaging 10+ PPG and shooting under 34% from three (some of them are obviously elite - they're in bold, but some of them are obviously NOT - they're in regular face; those in-between are in italics):

Dennis Schroeder: 17.8 on 33.6% - entered the league at 23.8%, but he's now an 18-6-3 guy at 23. NBA Draft.net compares Fox to Schroeder. If he's not elite, he's trending that way.

Emmanuel Mudiay: 11.0 on 31.5% - hasn't shot above 32% in two seasons, but I don't think he's close to elite. An adequate starter.

John Wall: 23.0 on 31.3% - hit 49 of 202 threes across his first three seasons (<25%), but he's a four-time all-star, with an all-d second team.

Ricky Rubio: 10.4 on 31.2% - shot 34% on threes his first season and hasn't gotten back since - a career 31.6% three-point shooter, but he's also been a near double double for his career. I wouldn't say he's elite, but that's because he can't defend OR shoot.

Marcus Smart: 10.7 on 28.0% - shot 33.5% as a rookie, and he's been at about 27% since then. Career 29% shooter on threes. Is he elite? No, but is he one of the most promising young PGs? Absolutely - at 11-4-4 with strong defense, he's look good at 22.

Elfrid Payton: 12.4 on 26.9% - under 29% on threes in his career, but he's shown consistent growth, shooting 47% on FGs this season, and averaging 12-6-5. At 22, he has a promising future, and he's a so-so defender.

(DeMar DeRozan: 27.1 on 25.7%) - has shot above 31% in as many seasons as he has shot below 10%. Career 28% FG shooter. He's a SG, but it shows that athleticism and speed when coupled with strength can ake a very good player, but Fox doesn't have that strength - and won't. Then again, DD doesn't defend.

Derrick Rose: 17.9 on 21.7% - career 29.8% three point shooter. Three-time all-star despite shooting a combined 31% from deep in those seasons. Rookie of the Year on 22% threes. Career 20-6-4 - clearly was elite.

A quick survey of some websites projecting Fox:
Best case: Wall
Realistic: Kris Dunn
Dennis Schroeder
Brandon Jennings
Another site: John Wall
Jrue Holiday

Based on those comparisons, here are some projections:
Peak season: 19.4 points, 7.7 assists, 3.5 rebounds
Career: 14.7 points, 6.6 assists, 3.4 rebounds

Wall AREA Fox
6'4 Height 6'3 3/4"
196 Weight 185
6'9 1/4" Length(Reach?) 6'4 1/2"
8'5 1/2" Reach 8'3"
30" No-step Vert 34"
39" Max Vert 38.5"

 

Did you know that Wall took 87 threes in his second and third seasons - COMBINED? And he hit 15 of them - 17%

 

The game ended 10 - 15 minutes ago. I'm still pissed off. Local station went to weather because of a tornado warning. Missed the last 10 minutes of the game.

UGHHHHHH!!!!!!

 

In actual tanking news Ingram is out tonight.

Your move Phoenix.

 

That sucks.

 

I'm not really sure what sort of argument I've gotten myself into here. I'm not trying to define what is elite and what isn't, I'm not trying to say drafting Fox would be a mistake, all I was doing was pointing out his positives and negatives. When I say elite, personally I was talking about the point guards in the NBA that are all-star caliber, leaders on their teams, the ones that stand out. All of those guys can shoot. Westbrook, Irving, Curry, Wall, Lowry, Paul, Thomas, Lillard, Conley, Walker. I'm not judging Fox based on if he'll be decent, or how he compares to his peers, the only criteria if we get that top 3 pick is can we get a game changer. Is Fox that? IMO, no. Neither is Fultz, Ball, Jackson, or anyone else I see. So with that said, I look to trade that pick if we keep it for a game changer. If we use it to draft someone, then yes, absolutely all those guys I listed are ones I look at to select. Like I said before, I like Ball for his playmaking skills, and Fox has for sure climbed up my list for his athleticism and defense.

 

I'm with you. I actually like Fox. My comparisons have never been aimed as an insult. I think he's one of few guys I see that has a road to being a high functioning starter. I like him better than Dennis Smith for instance based on Fox's approach and mentality.

 

I'm just trying to point out that this pick, should we be lucky enough to keep it, is extremely important. This one pick could be the asset that turns around our entire franchise, all it takes is one player to start that turnaround. This will be Rob and Magic's first chance to really make a big move and get us on the right track. I'm not gambling that on another 19 year old unless I have no choice, and I will judge these 19 year old's games very critically.

 

Who from this draft would you want to build around? I look at Fox, Monk, Jackson and see complimentary players. Ball has flaws, but he's a willing (elite) passer. Not sure he'd ever be our best player, but he'd sure make those around him better. I haven't seen enough of Fultz to comment on his game / impact.

 

I don't see any players to build around, I too only see complimentary players. Fox would be a nice athletic defender next to Russell, and Ball would be the true PG to run the show and make others look better, allow Russell to play SG. But I see nobody that is going to come in and be our star, make us a playoff team, be instantly better than Russell, or even Ingram/possibly Randle. I don't see anyone good enough to draft and replace one of those guys with, only players that we could draft and put next to them to hopefully make us a more complete team that is slowly improving. That's why my first choice would be to shop the pick for a true all-star, most obviously Paul George.

 

I trade the pick regardless. Too long to get a 19 year old to be a strong contributor on a playoff team, and we already have a lot of young, promising talent.

 

I'm really only keeping the pick if we trade away Russell, Randle, and Clarkson for someone. I still want to keep 2-3 young guys, I just don't want a whole team of young guys. I think the mystique of the Top 3 pick has more value though so I'd definitely be looking to trade it.

 

Ball kids are tall. Wow. Kinda shocking standing next to Manna.

During 1st Take, Kobe said he hasn't played basketball since his 60 game. Wow. This man lived, ate, breathed basketball for 35 years and then poof! No more. I figured he'd go kicking and screaming.