President Trump

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion and Philosophy -(FORUM CLOSED)-' started by TIME, Jan 20, 2017.

  1. John3:16

    John3:16 Moderator Staff Member

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    He's got a long way to go. Like you, my problem with it is, he has a majority GOP Congress. Use them so all these executive orders can't just be undone like he did to Obama's executive orders.

    20170129_110440.png
     
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  2. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

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    WOW, I take it back.

    I had no idea some presidents issued that many. But as you say, he could just pass it through Congress
     
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  3. Azndude2190

    Azndude2190 - Lakers 6th Man -

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    None of the recent terrorist attacks in the US have been done by immigrants or refugees from any of these blacklisted countries. Nor has there been any Syrians since 9/11 prosecuted for terrorism. Fort Hood, San Bernandino, and Orlando were carried out by either American born US citizens or from countries that weren't blacklisted like Saudi Arabia or Pakistan.

    And define "strigent" vetting. The process that was already in place for refugees takes 1.5-2 years on average and spans across multiple agencies: FBI, DHS, CIA, State Department, and the Treasury.
     
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  4. davriver209

    davriver209 - Rookie -

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    I like what he's doing so far. He should've gone through congress since he holds the majority, but I can see him using executive order and then coming back later through congress, (maybe duriing mid-year?) thinking more republicans will win more seats, and then have it go through congress
     
  5. John3:16

    John3:16 Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm just saying a 90 day period to figure it out isn't necessarily a bad thing. Strangely, we've been bombing 75% of those countries for the past 4 - 8 years and no one seemed to mind. But the second we limit them entering our country and the world goes crazy. Maybe if we limit who can come in and figure it out we can stop the bombings. THAT would be a great thing, IMO.
     
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  6. Azndude2190

    Azndude2190 - Lakers 6th Man -

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    But figure what out?

    And people did care, at least I did. Through the Bush and Obama administration we've managed to help create chaos in Iraq, Syria and Libya.

    You don't take refugees from nice places. You take them from war torn, poverty stricken, failed countries. That's the whole point.
     
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  7. davriver209

    davriver209 - Rookie -

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    You've seen what doing that does... have you looked at what happened to Germany all of last year? That's potentially us... which is why I agree on a temporary halt until some type of system is implemented to ensure we don't take in the bad guys as well
     
  8. John3:16

    John3:16 Moderator Staff Member

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    Germany might not admit is, but they're in big trouble. And for them to criticize Trump is laughable. Canadian president said they can come to his country. Problem solved!
     
  9. John3:16

    John3:16 Moderator Staff Member

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    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-refugees-factbox-idUSKBN15C052

    Here is what Trump's order on "extreme vetting" - denounced by civil rights groups as discriminatory - includes.

    TEMPORARY SUSPENSION OF VISAS FOR CERTAIN COUNTRIES

    The order bars the entry of foreign nationals from certain countries for 90 days. While no countries are specifically named in the order, it refers to a statute that would apply to seven Muslim-majority nations: Syria, Iran, Sudan, Libya, Somalia, Yemen and Iraq. There is an exception for certain types of visas, including for diplomats and the United Nations.

    The temporary halt is aimed at giving the Department of Homeland Security, the State Department and the Director of National Intelligence time to determine what information is needed from each country to ensure that visas are not issued to individuals posing a national security threat.

    CHANGES TO SCREENING FOR IMMIGRATION PROGRAMS

    The order calls for a review to create a single process for screening people entering the country, which could include holding more in-person interviews, searches of an expanded database of identity documents or longer application forms.

    Under the current system, some visa applications require interviews but others do not. The government already has extensive databases but some believe they need to be expanded.

    The order suspends the Visa Interview Waiver Program, which allows consular officers to exempt some applicants from face-to-face interviews if they are seeking to renew their temporary visas within a year of expiration.

    Immigration attorneys say the changes will make even routine applications much more complicated and time consuming and could mean that more people will need assistance to get through the visa process. In an attempt to ensure wait times for interviews are "not unduly affected," the order calls for the hiring of more consular fellows to work in U.S. embassies abroad.

    RESTRICTING REFUGEES

    The order calls for the temporary halt of all refugee admissions for four months so the government can study the process and determine if additional checks are necessary, although there will be case-by-case exceptions.

    The order also implemented a blanket ban of all Syrian refugees until "sufficient changes" have been made to the refugee program, without giving more details.

    After the suspension is lifted, the government will give priority to applicants that are suffering religious-based prosecution, but only if they are minorities in their country.

    Trump said in a television interview that the move would protect Christians. It could also protect ethnic minorities like the Yazidis in the Middle East. This could potentially open the door to legal challenges claiming religious discrimination, some legal experts say.

    Once refugee admissions resume, fewer will be allowed. The 2017 cap was set at 50,000 people, compared to 85,000 designated by President Barack Obama for 2016.

    In a nod to certain states and cities that have objected to refugee resettlement, the order also seeks to give state and local jurisdictions a role in deciding whether or not to allow people to live there. (John3:16 note -- I like this part, although they can obviously cross state lines. But I think states should be involved. Isn't that why we have Congress? USE CONGRESS PRESIDENT TRUMP!!!! I digress.)

    COMPLETING THE "BIOMETRIC ENTRY-EXIT TRACKING SYSTEM"

    The system is aimed at tracking foreign visitors' arrival and departure using information like finger prints. Former President Barack Obama's administration had aimed to start implementing biometric exit checks at the country's largest airports by 2018.

    Some experts have said that for the system to work properly, it would need to cover all land, air, and sea ports of entry, which is a major undertaking. According to a 2014 report from the Bipartisan Policy Center the system would be expensive to implement and would "offer mixed value for enforcement objectives."
     
  10. Azndude2190

    Azndude2190 - Lakers 6th Man -

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    Germany's problem...and really Europe's as a whole...is that they took in too many at the same time without planning for it. They have refugees without proper housing in and around Berlin metropolitan area. They are also geographically connected to the Middle East via Turkey. There Muslim population is also not properly integrated within the culture.

    That's not us.

    American Muslims unlike their counterparts in Europe have been fully integrated into American society. They have work, housing, and education. We also do not share a land mass with Middle East.

    Why is this possible? Again, because we already have a process in place to vet these people over a 2 year period. The people arriving from these nations yesterday were probably at the tail end of that process. It's not like, "Hey honey, this place is a total **** hole, lets hop on a plane and go to America right now!"
     
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  11. John3:16

    John3:16 Moderator Staff Member

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    Agree. Europe wouldn't have this problem if the Middle East countries did their part. Saudi took in a grand total of zero. Several other ME countries refused to take in any. I'm all for helping out those in need. My priority is our homeless and then we'll take in XX amount, assuming Saudi, Iran, Qatar, etc etc etc etc take in the same number.

    As for Germany, I again agree with you. There is no assimilation. Just pop up some tents, open some cans of soup and hope the problem goes away. We know it doesn't work that way.
     
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  12. Azndude2190

    Azndude2190 - Lakers 6th Man -

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    At the bold, we already do this, without the ban.

    That's gonna be kinda hard considering Trump signed an executive order to put a federal employee hiring freeze.

    I'm not okay with taking less given the process we have in place. If you want to do more "vetting", then at least keep the current rate.

    I'm ok with this.
     
  13. lakerfan2

    lakerfan2 - Lakers All Star -

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    So let me understand why Trump gives priority to Christian refugees coming into the country vs others?

    So all someone from ISIS or whatever terrorist have to do is claim they are Christian and they're in?
     
  14. lakerfan2

    lakerfan2 - Lakers All Star -

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    Additionally, I don't think this "ban" makes us more safe. If anything, it just added fuel to a fire that radical terrorists will use as propaganda for their attacks. It just creates a greater divide between nations as a whole.

    You can try to spin this as making things better for Americans, but America has always been known and heralded for being an open country, not a Nationalistic state.
     
  15. davriver209

    davriver209 - Rookie -

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    I think people are just being too sensitive to this policy... it's a temporary thing until he feels a system is in place that he feels good about that can weed out the bad eggs.

    When you suspend and temporarily halt visas from countries that are known to breed terrorists, I think that's a completely logical and reasonable response....
     
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  16. Kenzo

    Kenzo - Lakers All Star -

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    ^ he "banned" wrong countries though ;)
     
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  17. davriver209

    davriver209 - Rookie -

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    Well until something is in place where we can negate that, I think the president made the right choice..

    . it's not trying to spin anything to make it better, there is no doing that. What you do is the weigh the risks... what's riskier pissing people off temporarily and find a solution or solutions? Or just allow whomever to come in?

    I think with the recent terroist attacks on our soil, that people seemed to have forgotten that happened, I think a temporary suspension of visas from that list of countries is a logical and reasonable response...
     
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  18. davriver209

    davriver209 - Rookie -

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    I like how the word banned was inserted into his policy
     
  19. John3:16

    John3:16 Moderator Staff Member

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    At this point, I think people are going to fight everything he does and protest in the streets. And of course, it wouldn't be complete without the Schumer crocodile tears. Same guy who wanted a similar ban in 2015. Hypocrisy is thick!!!

    When Obama issued a 6 month ban on Iranians entering the US, no one batted an eye. I just don't get it.

    When Trump issued this statement on behalf of Holocaust Remembrance Day, people freaked out. Here is the quote:
    “It is with a heavy heart and somber mind that we remember and honor the victims, survivors, heroes of the Holocaust,” Trump’s statement began. “It is impossible to fully fathom the depravity and horror inflicted on innocent people by Nazi terror.”

    He left out the word "Jew" so people are mad. Gimme a break.

    Tomorrow Trump is naming his SCOTUS nominee. Democrats are already mad and they don't even know who it's going to be.

    Politics.........
     
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  20. lakerfan2

    lakerfan2 - Lakers All Star -

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    I don't think the US has just allowed whoever to come in, there's always been a vetting process for ANYONE coming in. What makes an issue is when you come forthright and ban people of a religion and prioritize another. Also, there were American citizens detained simply for flying home. A 5 year old boy was detained because he was from another country? You think that is right?

    No one forgets that terrorist attacks happen and the world can be ever so vigilant when these situations arise. But to outright prohibit an entire country because a small percentage of radicals reside in their country is not the proper approach to this situation. Again, this only divides us as a nation from the rest of the world.

    Say you really wanted to travel to Paris with your wife, but France prohibited you from coming in because Obama was your president. You obviously didn't associate yourself with Obama, but hey, they'll lump you in too. How would you feel?

    That's exactly what Trump is doing, but at a level that is beyond politics at this point.
     

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