Timofey Mozgov Discussion: Shut Down For Season (66)

Discussion in 'Lakers Discussion' started by Lakers2015, Jun 30, 2016.

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  1. abeer3

    abeer3 - Lakers Legend -

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    most important to me (knock on wood) is that he's been available. that was my concern with the signing.
     
    abeer3, Dec 9, 2016
    #841
  2. sirronstuff

    sirronstuff - Lakers Legend -

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    With more money comes higher expectations. We've seen how much middle talent centers get paid in this league, so I think we are all adjusting to perceived value versus performance.

    There are times that he looks great, and times he looks underwhelming.

    But.....Luke says he's the best at VERTICALITY!!!

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2016
    sirronstuff, Dec 9, 2016
    #842
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  3. alam1108

    alam1108 - Lakers Legend -

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    He's not the focal point on the offense but I do wis we went to him more often when the starters are struggling to score.
     
    alam1108, Dec 9, 2016
    #843
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  4. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    As much as I love what Randle brings, his lack of defensive rotation is starting to wear thin on me. He's guilty of not rotating on probably 85-90% of plays. Most times he's in pretty good position too, but just doesn't move his feet to get where he needs to be. It's infuriating.

    Meanwhile the defensive rotations off the bench are generally very good and at times fantastic. Black, Ingram, and Nance Jr. do an excellent job of tagging and bodying up the roll man after the "Center" is forced to help.
     
    therealdeal, Dec 9, 2016
    #844
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  5. Khmrp

    Khmrp - Lakers Legend -

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    So i provide you stats but your opinion out weighs actual results?
     
    Khmrp, Dec 9, 2016
    #845
  6. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

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    I don't have a view on this argument, but stats have to be contextualized. Barns did that. You can disagree, but then you should offer a different context.
     
    trodgers, Dec 9, 2016
    #846
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  7. Khmrp

    Khmrp - Lakers Legend -

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    Box score stats is not contexualized, advance stats/metrics does take nore factors into accts. i am guilty of it at times of dismissing stats when it doesnt fit my argument as well but our defensive woes are just as bad as last year theres no arguing that
     
    Khmrp, Dec 9, 2016
    #847
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  8. OX1947

    OX1947 - Lakers MVP -

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    Deng is a lemon. He actually showed signs of it in the second half of last year. However, I am willing to give the Lakers the benefit of the doubt there and hang it up as just bad luck on timing. But Mosgov? That one was pretty damn obvious for a long time. I am a results business type of person. I do not care if you show me +/- stats or Per 36 minutes stats. You can send me those stats all day and I'm more than likely going to stick to my results answers. The results in this league is W's and how you effect the game, game in and game out. And if it was as simple as "Randle doesn't rotate", I am sure Luke would have solved that issue by now, so I am not going to put blame on Randle because Mosgov can't block more than 0.8 shots a game or grab 5 freakin rebounds a game. The guy cant even freakin rebound more than Kobe did in his injured plagued 19th year in the league.

    Bottom line is, he is a limited player that is a liability for 3/4 of a basketball game. I mean, come on fellas and Cookie, it's not just me. Luke plays a guy who has been on 6 teams in late games over him in Trob. I am not saying all this to be mean. It is what it is. His value, if you wanna call it that, is usually good for about 12 minutes a game. After or before that he is as useful as any scrub 12th man center in the league.
     
    OX1947, Dec 9, 2016
    #848
  9. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

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    But you do realize the stats you provided don't address anything I said?

    I never said the team is better with Mozgov on the court offensively or defensively compared to the second unit. I said he's doing his job individually defensively and most of the other starters aren't doing their job defensively. It makes him look bad when they blow coverage, while I'd bet money that if you look at just his defensive, one on one stats against opposing centers, he's probably better than the league average.

    Find his individual man defensive stats against opposing centers, and if they're bad, I'll eat crow... but I bet I won't.
     
    Barnstable, Dec 9, 2016
    #849
  10. Khmrp

    Khmrp - Lakers Legend -

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    Who care if you eat crow or not...bottom line is the defense suck and Moz plays a big role in that aspect and that 82gm stat shows his net production vs. his opponent and its a big disparity
     
    Khmrp, Dec 9, 2016
    #850
  11. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

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    You looked at the stats and saw that I was correct didn't ya
     
    Barnstable, Dec 9, 2016
    #851
  12. Khmrp

    Khmrp - Lakers Legend -

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    Nope, i dont want to bother wasting time...i provide hard evidence all you got is your "what you see" and btw 4 reb from your C sure looks ALOT like hibbert and why dont you prove me wrong with actual facts rather than just your personal opinion
     
    Khmrp, Dec 9, 2016
    #852
  13. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    If you're watching Mozgov and you see Hibbert, then I'm not exactly sure there's any argument to be made. All the stats in the world doesn't mean much if you can't tell the difference by watching the two players.

    Mozgov doesn't have to be great to not be bad.
     
    therealdeal, Dec 10, 2016
    #853
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  14. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

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    I finally looked into this - where are you getting the PER differential? On 82games.com, Moz's differential is +2.1. Hibbert last season was -11.1.
     
    trodgers, Dec 10, 2016
    #854
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  15. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

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    But you didn't provide hard evidence. We're talking about the effectiveness of Mozgov and you provided mostly team defensive and offensive numbers, then claim that tells us the story of how effective Mozgov is. Where is the comparison to the league Center average?

    As I stated, I'm not a stats guy. I watch the games, and know what I see contextually in game. You're making the claim that stats prove your point, but I'm making the claim that in watching the games, his actual play on the court doesn't support your argument.

    You are the one claiming the stats support your story, so it's on you to provide them, since the stats you provided so far aren't specific to Mozgov and aren't in context to the league.
     
    Barnstable, Dec 10, 2016
    #855
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  16. Khmrp

    Khmrp - Lakers Legend -

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    The overal impact is the same statically, not the player. also by now its time to stop saying luke knows better than us argument as well as i continue to see Moz mins decline with every passing gm. if hes making such an impact greater than what stats say than luke isnt doing a good job playing him so little
     
    Khmrp, Dec 10, 2016
    #856
  17. Khmrp

    Khmrp - Lakers Legend -

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    You "proven" your argument with "what i see"....that says enough to me to not want to do any further digging, you'll likely dismiss it like the 82game stats . ...as for moz per to his counter part, it is not saying he is a net positive 2per, it is saying his per on avg is 2 while his counter party is on avg 17+
     
    Khmrp, Dec 10, 2016
    #857
  18. LTLakerFan

    LTLakerFan - Lakers Legend -

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    Luke does know better than you, period. Are you really going there??? He plays Moz 32 minutes plus when it is warranted in his eyes for the needed match up with what the opposing team is putting on the floor.
     
    LTLakerFan, Dec 10, 2016
    #858
  19. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

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    That's not true.
     

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    trodgers, Dec 10, 2016
    #859
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  20. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    The overall impact takes out all contextual clues to who the player is if all you're doing is stat counting. You'd get more positive response to your opinion if you admitted that Mozgov looks very different on the floor from Hibbert. Very, very different.
     
    therealdeal, Dec 11, 2016
    #860
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