The Libertarian Thread

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion and Philosophy -(FORUM CLOSED)-' started by revgen, Nov 10, 2016.

  1. revgen

    revgen - Lakers 6th Man -

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    I figured a thread discussing Libertarian philosophy and opinions is worth having.

    Ron Paul wrote an article on Populism that was published on CNN.com's opinion page. Which is surprising since CNN is usually not so friendly towards Libertarian ideas. My guess is they allowed it since it partially bashes Trump.

    LINK
     
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  2. Savory Griddles

    Savory Griddles Moderator Staff Member

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    Too bad he was too old to run this time. If he would have been the Libertarian candidate this year and been 65 or so, he would have gotten at LEAST 7-8% of the popular vote.
     
  3. TIME

    TIME Administrator Staff Member

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    I have some disagreements with Ron Paul, but so much of what he says makes so much sense. I'm just not sure how his ideas could actually be implemented in a system of power, money and control so deeply entrenched in both major parties.
     
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  4. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

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    Love Ron Paul and most of his ideas, but man... what happened with Rand Paul? Not at all a chip off the old block
     
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  5. TIME

    TIME Administrator Staff Member

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    I'm just guessing, but it seems to me that Rand agrees with most of his Dad's ideas, but is much more pragmatic than the old man and decided to try to incorporate some in the context of the traditional politician approach.
     
  6. revgen

    revgen - Lakers 6th Man -

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    Ron Paul approach = Preach the gospel.

    Rand Paul approach = Forge alliances with different groups. Whether it's "left", "right", independents, libertarians, young, elderly, etc.

    Preaching the gospel of Libertarianism is what Ron Paul did for years in congress. It's a nice way of doing "my way or the highway". Nobody could ever tell Ron that he lacked integrity or "flip-flopped" on issues. Rand's approach is to stand firm on many of his father's principals while presenting them in a way that appeals to everybody, also known as pandering to those who are cynical. Pandering isn't "flip-flopping" per say, but it makes him look like a traditional beltway politician, when he really isn't.
     
  7. Savory Griddles

    Savory Griddles Moderator Staff Member

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    This. They agree on a lot, but Rand know where he has to tweak some of the messaging if he ever wants to move the needle.
     
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  8. davriver209

    davriver209 - Rookie -

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    There's so much that goes into being a "Libertarian" that it's impossible to put into one post. From reading and research, its a "in-between" the left and the right. They are fiscally conservative, yet Socially liberal. I couldn't quite grasp what the stance is regarding foreign policy, still reading because I thought the way I stand on issues, that I'd fall under the Libertarian Sect, but i'm not quite sure.
     
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  9. revgen

    revgen - Lakers 6th Man -

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    Libertarian isn't really "in-between" anything. Libertarian is the opposite of Authoritarian.

    [​IMG]

    Libertarians believe government should be staying out of our financial and social lives as much as possible. That's why they advocate as strongly for reduced prison sentences for non-violent offenders and drug legalization as they do for less regulation on businesses.
     
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  10. John3:16

    John3:16 Moderator Staff Member

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    We don't mess with them and they don't mess with us. If they mess with us, we follow the Constitution and get approval from Congress.

    This is easily my favorite thing about the Libertarian party. My least favorite is the stance on drugs. I realize marijuana will be legalized across the country very soon. But harder drugs wreak havoc and I just can't turn a blind eye to them.
     
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  11. Savory Griddles

    Savory Griddles Moderator Staff Member

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    Yeah. I have a lot of libertarian leanings, but I can't imagine a world where heroin being available at CVS or Rite Aid is a good idea.
     
  12. revgen

    revgen - Lakers 6th Man -

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    Drugs are already available on the streets from various criminal gangs. Addicts will buy the drugs, whether it's from the gangs or a legal drug store.

    The difference is that CVS, Walgreens, and Rite Aid won't get into a gang war in the middle of the street to fight over turf. If they do any fighting, it'll be with trial attorneys in a courtroom.

    Also, the first major hurdle for any addict cleaning themselves up is to admit they have a problem. That's hard to do when admitting your problem may land you in jail.

    Drug legalization worked wonders when it was enacted in Portugal over 15 years ago, which they had to do after they ran out of money. Addiction rates dropped. Addicts sought help for their problems since they no longer feared being criminally convicted for their illness. LINK
     
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  13. Savory Griddles

    Savory Griddles Moderator Staff Member

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    I suppose there is some truth to that, but there will be some people who aren't addicts who will not even try drugs due to the fact that they will have to go to these gangs or their middle men to buy them. They become a non-option. I'm picturing people walking into CVS with a headache and instead of grabbing Tylenol, they think to themselves, "This is a really bad headache. I think I'll grab Percocet instead." Then they start taking Percocet for minor aches and pains, then because it relaxes them on the weekend...then addict."

    I have said before on this board that I had an injury and I was on Norco for a while. Even though my usage was relatively minor, I still went through withdrawals and didn't want to stop taking it despite the pain being minimal. Opiates sneak up on you. They aren't like weed. They rewire your brain and they do it fast.
     
  14. revgen

    revgen - Lakers 6th Man -

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    I've never had any drug withdrawal issues despite taking vicodin and other pain medication, but I know family members who have. I'm just glad their addiction wasn't too difficult to admit to since the drugs they were taking weren't schedule 1 controlled substances.

    Drug legalization isn't a cure-all. Drug addiction will always be a problem as long as drugs exist. But I believe government intervention only makes the problem worse instead of making it better. Rehabilitation for addicts (alcohol, tobacco, and drugs) has improved dramatically since Nixon started the war on drugs in the early 70's. The DEA and the WOD program need to relegated to the annals of history.
     
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  15. John3:16

    John3:16 Moderator Staff Member

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    This applies to just about everything.
     
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  16. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

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    I respect the Libertarian idealism and concept for the most part, but like a lot of philosophies, I think they take it too far.

    Why does everyone always want to take ideals like Libertarian, Democratic, Socialist, Communist, etc as THE WAY to govern (or non govern as it were)? Why is it always all or nothing with these philosophies? There is a point where Libertarian philosophy falls apart and doesn't work, at some extreme corners of social policy.

    For instance, I love that each person has the right to vote in an election, but if we follow a strict Libertarian doctrine, every human being should be able to vote, including babies and little kids. What kind of sense does that make? They don't even have the ability to understand what they are doing. Eighteen as voting age is a pretty arbitrary number. Some people are far smarter, and can understand what they are voting for way before eighteen, but they chose eighteen as voting age for expedience and simplicity, and I think that works just fine.
     
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  17. revgen

    revgen - Lakers 6th Man -

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    I've yet to hear of Libertarians advocating for babies and kids voting in elections. I've looked at the Cato institute, Mises.org, and the Libertarian party page and found nothing. Any links would be appreciated.
     
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  18. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

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    Actually, Bonkscooter said this a few times when I challenged him. All citizens should be able to vote. Maybe he got it from Thomas Sowell I don't know.

    If you think there is a limit to that idea, I'm all for it, but that's never how it's presented. I've never heard any Libertarian say it doesn't work in some cases.
     
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  19. revgen

    revgen - Lakers 6th Man -

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    I don't support babies and kids voting since they've yet to finish school, find a job, and they're still under the custody of their parents.

    There are some extreme strains of Libertarian philosophy that believe in Voluntaryism, which is a form of organized anarchy. This would scrap the government and elections altogether. All social and economic decisions will be voluntary and not dictated, regulated, or controlled by a hierarchal power. I'm not quite willing to go that far yet.
     
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  20. Savory Griddles

    Savory Griddles Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm actually of the belief that 23-25 should be the voting age unless you join the military at which point it could be 18. I think that not only should you be an adult, but be an adult with some real life experience. Yes, there are some 18 year olds equipped to vote, but the majority of people fresh out of high school shouldn't have input into how the country works. Get a real job. Work with people of all ages and walks of life as opposed to your classmates on a group project. Make a real paycheck and see what taxes do to it.
     
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