I never saw the Stilt play in his prime. I did see Olajuwon so I can see the argument. My point is size wise O'Neal was the most nimble big man I ever saw in open space. Olajuwon had a lighter frame more like a 4 nowadays. I've never seen him take the rock off the glass and run the break down the middle like O'Neal has. All that mass with agility, power and speed to boot. I'll concede though Olajuwon was far superior on defense. He had better footwork too in tighter confines because of his soccer training...
Yeah I've watched Kareem play. I don't disagree with everything you said. Kareem's knowledge of the game (and just knowledge in general) was transcendent. But you can only do so much against the raw power that Shaq possessed. In Shaq's prime when he was the perfect combination of size and speed (probably 00-02 or so) there was nothing anybody could do to stop him around the rim. Shaq would have backed Kareem under the rim just like everyone else. Now of course Kareem would be able to find his spots on the floor and score the same way he always did. However, a dunk is a higher percentage shot even than the Skyhook. Over time, Kareem is a far better Center and if I'm building a franchise I want Kareem before any other player in history including Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant and equal maybe only to Magic Johnson. But if we're talking about one game or one season or one playoff series, the player I want above any other ever is Shaquille O'Neal circa 1999-2001. That was the most dominant force I've ever seen on a basketball court.
I think the only way that game ends is when both of them are hurt. Wilt might have been the only guy I believe could have consistently held his ground against Shaq. The other difference was mentality. Wilt didn't like dunking the ball. If he was playing against Shaq that might change, but Shaq was just meaner on the floor.
My post was a response to yours implying that Kareem only was better due to longevity and durability. I think Kareem was better by almost every way we evaluate bigs. However, that said, I do think prime Shaq would give prime Kareem fits with his power game. The only center I ever saw dominate Kareem was Moses Malone and he did it with power and meanness.
I'm with ya. At the peak of his powers I don't think there has ever been a player like Shaq. Wilt is closest, but the problem was Wilt didn't want to bang and dunk on guys. He really wanted to be a finesse player. I think the physicality of Shaq would have brought out the monster in Wilt, but first blood goes to Shaq. He was a fun guy off the floor, but once his feet hit hard wood Shaq turned into the baddest man on the planet.
Walton's first years in the league before all the foot problems, he often to me seemed to give Kareem all he could handle and outplayed him at times.
Moses Malone use to manhandle Kareem. If Shaq was playing Kareem back then, Kareem would have been a fly to Shaq. As far as putting Shaq after Kareem, unfortunately I cant do that. Had Shaq won in 95 and 04, you could argue for #1. He would have been 6-0 in the finals. At least 4 Finals MVPs and would have led 3 teams to NBA titles. It sucks because Shaq's team were favorite in both those loses so, it was a lost opportunity.
No force like Shaq, period. In todays NBA, he wouldn't make it past half time though. All these elbows to poors Dikembe and Ricks faces...
True, but he didn't do it though and Kareem did win 6 titles in 10 Finals appearances. That's a preposterous amount of success. Kareem is the greatest player of all time in my opinion because of his longevity and effectiveness over 20 years of basketball service. He had 6 MVPs (they changed the rules so he couldn't win anymore), 2 Finals MVPs, 4 time block leader, 19 All-Star appearances, 15 times All-NBA, 11 times All-Defense... There's nobody in the NBA who enjoyed more success for a longer period of time. At their peaks, Shaq would have beaten Kareem, but over time Kareem is better. Shaq had the opportunity to be better and he couldn't figure out how to make it work. If you asked him, he'd admit he left too much on the table and that's something that cannot be said for guys like Kareem and Kobe and Bird. Magic left a lot on the table too considering how much the HIV cut his career short. Some of that is outside his control, but it is what it is.
Sure OX. To the neophyte Shaq watchers. I however had him at 52.36%. Either way, like you say about Bill "throw it down Big Man" Walton .... about 75% full of s*** with his 30% comments the other day.
"I'd like to thank Kobe Bryant, a guy that pushed me to three titles -- and then pushed me off the team and got me traded," O'Neal ...sigh. Still hurt after all these years even if the line was delivered as a joke.
Woah .... wait did they have the induction and he said that?? I didn't know when the date was. F*** you Shaq. Poor taste.
