Official 2016 Free Agency Thread

me too. Every year I worry about this and so far he's been lucky. But IMO he's sort of a ticking time bomb for something more serious injury wise.

Love the player and person though. Perfect fit for what we're trying to build in professional and position.

 

You think Deng is a better player than Whiteside? I'd have to disagree with that. Afflalo/Deng might come cheaper, but the idea is to throw bit cash/short years at veterans in an attempt to lure them away from more winning situations. I'm not sure we can get Deng/Afflalo/Noah on reasonable deals.

 

That deep voice mixed with positivity... dammit he really is the new Phil isn't he?

 

Yeah, Deng is a better player right now. I have some minor concerns about regression with Whiteside. I'm now on the Horford bandwagon as a result. He's also better now than Whiteside.

 

I understand concerns about Whiteside, really I do. He's definitely a candidate to be fat and happy on that new paycheck. However, if we're judging off last season then Whiteside is clearly a better player. He was the most impactful defensive big man in the league last year. He was ridiculously efficient, an elite rebounder, and an elite shot blocker. He had a Top 10 PER, a Top 5 TS% despite poor FT%, all with a usage outside the Top 20 in the league. He was first in Defensive Rating, fifth in Defensive Win Shares, 11th in overall Win Shares, and seventh in defensive plus/minus.

I love Luol Deng and he's been fairly consistent through the years, but I don't think he as as impactful a player last season as Whiteside. Do you think Whiteside regresses that much?

 

To @trodgers point.

 

Well, his motor and his reportedly aloof attitude. With a team as young and as impressionable as ours, I'm not sure I want to have that type of attitude in the locker room. Whoever we get right now to fill in that veteran presence isn't going to be on the team when we are ready to actually start making legitimate noise (as in a WCF caliber team), so that being the case, I'd rather that we sign the highest quality character guys we can find (that obviously still have some good mileage left on them). Marvin Williams, Horford, Noah...those types of veterans are still good and can lead by example as well as vocally. Our future lies in the hands of Ingram, Russell and Randle. They will be the players that lead us to the promise land. A dude like Whiteside will be in his 30's on the backside of his career by then.

I would take a chance on Whiteside if we traded (for example) Ingram for Butler and signed Kevin Durant in free agency since we'd be in win now mode. But any player over the age of 27 is kind of a placeholder until our kids get good, which won't be for 4 years. And I'll put the disclaimer here again that by good I mean WCF caliber. I do believe that by the season after next our kids will be good enough to start sniffing the playoffs.

 

I'll make two posts for two claims.

1. Horford is better than Whiteside. (And would do more to make this team better than Whiteside would.)
2. Deng would do more to make this team better than Whiteside would.

Another claim: I am happy to get Whiteside. He's a great addition for the next half decade. Better than either of the other for that duration. I'm counting on Deng to move on after a couple years at max to make way for Ingram full time.

For claim #1:
Horford is "a little better" on offense? Horford hit 88 threes last season, at 34.4%, and he hit 80% of his FTs. Whiteside hit 50 shots outside ten feet and only 65% of his FTS. Horford handed out 263 assists (vs. 107 TO). Whiteside had 30 (vs. 137 TO).

I think that DBPM is a better measure of defense than DRtg, but both guys had elite numbers. Whiteside was at 18th in the league, at +2.94. Horford was 28th, at +2.01. Whiteside was at 95 DRtg, and Horford was at 101. Whiteside is VERY good defensively, and I'll give him the clear edge over Horford.

But the offensive game isn't even close. OPM for Horford is +.89. Whiteside is -1.51.

So, let's be clear on this: I think Horford is an A-/B+ defender, and I think he's a clear A as an offensive big. I think Whiteside is an A defender, and he's a C offensive player. Horford is the better player.

 

I don't mind disagreeing with people, but I want it to be for reasons that we really can't get beyond - like interpretation of facts. I don't think it's at all clear that Whiteside is a much better defender, but Horford is only a little better on offense.

We don't have quality leaders on the team. We have a bunch of kids.

Horford does the things Whiteside simply doesn't do. His ability to shoot, his handles, his vision and passing. It's similar to what Pau Gasol did when we won two championships thanks to his intelligent versatility on offense. See what I did?

 

So if we get Whiteside, who should we pick up to be the leaders? Based on who we will likely have on the roster (Russell, Lou, Clarkson, Ingram, Brown, Randle, Nance, Black, Zubac, and hypothetically Whiteside), we would have 10 guys already. I think we would need more than 2-3 veteran voices to keep Whiteside from drifting. And who are they? Marvin Williams on a HUGE 1 year deal? Joe Johnson on a big one year deal?

I'm honestly asking who we should grab. Not trying to be combative. I feel that if we do take the plunge on Whiteside, we HAVE to have other veterans in place.

 

Okay, Deng vs. Whiteside.

Here's why I like Deng and thinks he's the best fit for this team.
He's still an excellent defender.
He can do it all on offense - shoot, pass, and rebound.
He's a proven vet and an iron man.
He has tons of playoff experience.
He might be fine with taking a two year, near-max deal, and then riding off into the sunset or sticking on at a reduced salary to enjoy winning after putting in the hard work.

Whiteside absolutely requires a full, max offer. One-year wonders are pretty terrifying, especially if they're bigs. Is he going to stay motivated? Is he going to be able to stay on the court? Are we going to WANT him on the court in crunch time? Will he have the mentality of Andrew Bynum, which was, for all his amazing talents, destructive to his NBA career? Lots of question marks. It's hard to go all in on a 27 year-old with one good season under his belt. Especially when you remember that he doesn't pass or shoot outside 10'. Bogut has those abilities.

 

What about Marvin Williams? I think I like him more than Deng at this point. He could be the perfect veteran wing player for us.

 

He'd be a good add. I've come around on him, too

 

Gotcha. I just wanted to make sure we're on the same page and we are. I want Horford more than Whiteside and I've been very vocal about that. I absolutely adore Horford's fit on this team. I have a feeling he's high on the Lakers' list of targets.

As for Deng v. Whiteside- I completely understand your argument, but I still think Whiteside is a better player than Deng today. Tomorrow? Who knows? That's the inherent issue with Whiteside and I understand that. I'd welcome either of them to the team with wide open arms. I love Deng the person and the player. I hope the Lakers see it that way too. I wonder if he's prepared to take a bench position or if he'll insist on starting though which is why Afflalo is also on my list. Whiteside has a lot of holes to his game, but if he's motivated long-term (questionable) his defensive upside is tremendous.

 

No Deng no deal!!!111!!!