Official 2016 Free Agency Thread

Discussion in 'Lakers Discussion' started by LaVarBallsDad, Nov 16, 2015.

  1. revgen

    revgen - Lakers 6th Man -

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2014
    Messages:
    1,833
    Likes Received:
    4,203
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    I get the feeling that Batum is not a big city guy. He probably likes smaller cities like Portland and Charlotte.
     
    shoe likes this.
  2. ElginTheGreat

    ElginTheGreat - Lakers MVP -

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2014
    Messages:
    11,034
    Likes Received:
    30,652
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    I never thought we would get Batum (or Barnes honestly) so I'm not surprised at this.

    I've been fine with DeRozan and some combo of other players and still am.
     
    LaVarBallsDad and shoe like this.
  3. Savory Griddles

    Savory Griddles Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2014
    Messages:
    9,153
    Likes Received:
    22,370
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    So this morning I was listening to that Laker show that's on Saturday mornings on ESPN Radio 710. Marcellus for some reason came on for a few minutes. He made an interesting point (not entirely sure he was trying to make it because it was leading into another point), but this new CBA is going to put teams in uncharted territory. Teams are going to give mediocre players massive deals because they will have the money. It's going to be insane. I honestly think this summer is going to cripple some teams for years because they will have a player like Biyombo (who I DO really like) taking up 25% of their cap. Part of me is starting to think that maybe we should sit this year out (obviously unless Durant wants to come here).

    I know DD has been a hot topic here, but try to picture this. Let's say we got Aldridge last year; maybe another big free agent at some point. Are we simply on the DD train (that sounds real dirty...my apologies) because we know he has an interest in us and we have a legitimate shot at him? So like, we're in a bar and keep striking out with the gorgeous ladies and then a somewhat attractive girl comes up to us to ask us out. Are we looking at DD fondly because all the hot chicks don't want us and we feel like we have to go home with SOMEONE?

    I know the argument that we can't keep sitting on our cash and never sign anyone. I get it. It may very well be right. But while we've been doing this, we have also accumulated Russell, Randle, Nance, Clarkson and possibly Simmons/Ingram. DD is talented, but he ain't a franchise changer. And he's a pretty bad fit for this team. He's probably going to have to play sf (which he never has) and in a system that puts great importance on 3-point shooting (which he can't shoot). We already lack any outside shooting at the 4, so he's not an ideal fit. And how much is DeRozan going to help if there are still rookies and second year players at 3 or 4 of the other starting spots? A DeRozan over Kobe upgrade isn't going to mean much because our kids are all so green.

    I think we need to look at this offseason's free agent landscape. How many UFA would get max deals if the cap wasn't going through the roof? Durant...and? DeRozan would get a max deal from Toronto because they have to overpay with the market they are in. Our future rests on Russell, Randle, and maybe Simmons/Ingram. Overpaying for players that may cripple our cap right when the young pups start to become stars is a scary thought. I worry that the whole "This summer is different! People are going to get paid crazy amounts so we need to get in there and spend." is making us think we need to as well. Outside of Durant, there are no franchise altering talents. If we don't sign anyone this offseason, what's the worst that can happen? We miss out on second tier stars? Next offseason teams will have a much better idea of this new salary cap landscape. We aren't winning next year. Maybe this offseason we should let other people jump around and overpay, then when next offseason rolls around we can step in with our more seasoned youth, tons of cap space, and the ability to sign several players which most of the other other teams will not have because they blew their loads this offseason.

    Sorry for the long post.
     
    Chillbongo, Helljumper, Kenzo and 3 others like this.
  4. Lakers2015

    Lakers2015 - Lakers Starter -

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2015
    Messages:
    3,634
    Likes Received:
    6,103
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    So what happens next season? Cap rising even further if we don't get Russell Westbrook do we punt again? I mean at some point we have got to stop doing that. We have to spend some money. If we have to overpay to get guys who'll improve this team then we need to do it. We can't be gun shy when we've won a combined 65 games the last three seasons. We need talent and we need it now. We can't just keep putting the same pathetic product on the court each season. We can't just make it all about the young guys and not surround them with anything and then be surprised when they struggle. We can't put Luke in a lose/lose situation with a crap roster.
     
  5. scnottaken

    scnottaken - Rookie -

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2014
    Messages:
    825
    Likes Received:
    1,101
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Offline
    Cap's gonna jump next off-season too. I suppose we should sit that one out.

    As far as DeMar playing SF, someone already mentioned this, but he's one inch shorter than Batum and Barnes, and he's got 20 lbs on Batum. We'd be playing smaller anyway with our sg and pg being 6'4", and starting pf smaller than most. Who knows about starting center, but we'll likely have smaller backups at the 4 and 5 as well. We're gonna have to beat teams with speed as it is, so that makes him the better fit.
     
    ElginTheGreat and therealdeal like this.
  6. sirronstuff

    sirronstuff - Lakers Legend -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    31,797
    Likes Received:
    77,246
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Your time is running out Ham
    Location:
    Laker Purgatory
    Offline
    DP was saying he thinks we like DD
     
  7. Savory Griddles

    Savory Griddles Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2014
    Messages:
    9,153
    Likes Received:
    22,370
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    I get that the cap jumps next season too, but you need to look at the class of free agents. It's a better class of free agents. And I'm not saying spend no money, but there are going to be people that drop 15 million on Ezeli or 18 million on Biyombo. DD for the max? I mean, is he that much of an upgrade over Clarkson? I feel like we are going to sign a bunch of mediocre players when the real reason we will improve next season is going to rest COMPLETELY on the rookies short of signing Durant or trading the #1 pick for PG13. The cap is not going to jump far enough to where 15 million on a journeyman center like Ezeli (who definitely looks better than he is because of who's around him) is going to make sense.
     
  8. tada

    tada - Lakers All Star -

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2014
    Messages:
    4,467
    Likes Received:
    8,535
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    You have a valid point and I agree that Derozan is a terrible fit. He hampers the growth of our young core with his volume shooting and he's not the type of player you want in a GSW system.

    Here's my take on our situation.

    If all of our young players pan out, we're likely to start contending in about 4 years, around 2020. Clarkson/Nance will be in their prime and DAR/Julius (and possibly our Top 3 pick) will be 80-90% there. Any FA we sign until that point doesn't really matter in the big picture --- they're only here to make us interesting in the short-term. FA's now may jump ship again when their contract's up. Unfortunately they don't fit our timeline.

    Given those circumstances, I'd really like to sign system players that can accelerate the growth of our young guns. Yes, Derozan is the biggest prize in terms of pure value, making him tradable if things don't work out, but frankly that's just inviting more questions than answers. It's fun talking the hypotheticals of if/when/but's in these forums but honestly I'd prefer to keep things simple and try to get what we need most --- Barnes or Deng.
     
  9. Kenzo

    Kenzo - Lakers All Star -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    7,644
    Likes Received:
    15,977
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Poland
    Offline
    The amount of $, guaranteed contracts, scrubs making millions are insane in the NBA. This is getting crazy fast, now carry on :).
     
  10. Savory Griddles

    Savory Griddles Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2014
    Messages:
    9,153
    Likes Received:
    22,370
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    I'm really coming around on the idea of Noah. Our young guns are pretty much our way back. Sign players that will help them learn and build their game. None of the free agents we sign this summer (unless Durant does the unthinkable) will help us win titles. Their contracts will be up before then and we will likely not be able to resign them since our young guns (if they end up coming through) will all be on max deals.
     
    CarolinaLakerFan and Chillbongo like this.
  11. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2014
    Messages:
    28,475
    Likes Received:
    62,061
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    Didn't @trodgers already discredit the volume shooting being a negative concept?

    I honestly have no idea why we wouldn't pursue DeRozan. Batum isn't coming here, Barnes is restricted. Unless you think Durant or LeBron is walking through that door, then what exactly is the downside to DeRozan? A two-time All-Star capable of putting up 30 points on any given night while playing decent defense. Seems like a fine fit to me.

    We cannot keep rolling our money over into the next year expecting that some FA is going to come here for no reason. It's time to spend our money and draw a FA in if we can. Passing on DeRozan means what? Overpaying maybe for Deng? Really? I mean if we're lucky we get a dump candidate SF, but none of them will be better than DeRozan.

    I suppose we could keep our cash forever and ever until our young guys eventually need to be paid in 3-5 years and we'll give them max deals while paying journeymen high priced, one or two year deals to bide our time. I'm not really interested in that though. DeRozan will earn his paycheck more than even someone like Batum could.
     
  12. LaVarBallsDad

    LaVarBallsDad - Lakers Legend -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    16,172
    Likes Received:
    31,056
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    Mitch and Jim don't have 3 to 5 years to wait until the young guys develop into what we think they can be; besides, I think fans (including myself) have a tendency to overrate our young players. Either way, we need an influx of veteran talent on this team; if we have to rely on young core next year because we struck out in free agency, let us prepare for another trip to the lottery.
     
    ElginTheGreat likes this.
  13. pop pop

    pop pop - Rookie -

    Joined:
    May 30, 2015
    Messages:
    201
    Likes Received:
    276
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Offline
    I think having Demar Derozan as our first option on our offense will be a disaster. Toronto has the spacing to let Derozan try to attack the paint as they have good 3 point shooters in Lowry, Ross, Carroll, Patterson, and even Scola and a solid midrange shooter in Valaciunas this year. He won't have the same spacing available here. Even with pretty good shooters around him, Derozan is still not efficient as a scorer. Lou Williams shot more efficiently in the regular season than Derozan did (eFG% - 48.8 to 46.3; TS% - 58.4% to 55.0%) and many people think Lou Williams is an inefficient high volume shooter. I don't think Derozan will get us to the playoffs and even if we did, I assume he will most likely struggle like he is now.
     
    Chillbongo, tada and ZenMaster like this.
  14. Kenzo

    Kenzo - Lakers All Star -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    7,644
    Likes Received:
    15,977
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Poland
    Offline
    I'm starting to wonder if Jim and Mitch, knowing their jobs are on the line, won't "handcuff" our entire organisation for the next 4-5 years. Giving out bad contracts just because everybode else does and we have "spare" money is not wise.
     
  15. KareemtheGreat33

    KareemtheGreat33 - Lakers MVP -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    11,849
    Likes Received:
    24,056
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Brow-beater
    Location:
    Las Islas Filipinas
    Offline
    Barnes is the 3&D guy most of you want. He fills a need unlike DD whose production can be replicated by Clarkson.

    Horford and Barnes and we're good.
     
    Chillbongo, Magnum_BI and ZenMaster like this.
  16. tada

    tada - Lakers All Star -

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2014
    Messages:
    4,467
    Likes Received:
    8,535
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    @trodgers also acknowledged that Derozan has one of the worst eFG% of all the volume shooters. He's a very inefficient scorer.

    Why do you need to think in extremes? Disliking Derozan doesn't automatically mean we're against all signings. Where did that notion come from anyway? No one is implying rolling over unspent cash.
     
  17. abeer3

    abeer3 - Lakers Legend -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    28,639
    Likes Received:
    77,100
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    this argument has cycled back and forth about every other page. I don't think there's really a middle ground, though. either you overpay or you don't sign anyone (or you sign Durant, I guess). everyone is going to get overpaid; it's a matter of who and by how much. I'm fine with derozan (which represents the standard "pay for the best available player"), but I'm also fine with going the Portland route of last year: identifying a couple of young players with growth potential, who fit in your (hypothetical) system, and overpaying them in the hopes they grow into a role.

    but each is a case of overpaying. it's why building via FA is so dangerous, and why so few teams have had success this way.
     
  18. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    12,191
    Likes Received:
    18,538
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Professor of Humanities
    Location:
    Orlando
    Online
    It's a new market. Hard to say what's overpaying right now.
     
    ElginTheGreat, Weezy and alam1108 like this.
  19. tada

    tada - Lakers All Star -

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2014
    Messages:
    4,467
    Likes Received:
    8,535
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    I think there is a middle ground. Complimentary role players like Bass do exist.

    Anyway, like you mention, franchise players are usually home-bred. I'd like to choose the right ingredients to maximize production out of our young core. That's where many of us have an issue with Derozan. It's not about how much he'll cost us. He's definitely worth the max and no one's really arguing that point. Remember how many posters were furious at Kobe and Lou for taking away opportunities from our young core? Well get ready for deja vu with Derozan.
     
    Chillbongo and ZenMaster like this.
  20. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2014
    Messages:
    28,475
    Likes Received:
    62,061
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    That was bound to happen regardless of who we signed. Al Horford has had a usage percentage over 20 for four straight years. We all want Westbrook and Durant and their usage percentages are over 30 each.

    The young players are still extraordinarily raw and unless D'Angelo and Julius are both candidates for Most Improved Player next year, we're going to stink again if we sign the bare minimum talent.

    I'm not against going the Portland route, but what they did was rare. Their season was supposed to be a rebuilding season anyway where guys like Ed Davis and Mo Harkless and Al Forouq Aminu built trade value where the Blazers could flip them for a better player down the line. I'm okay going that route but it's not going to matter. If Ed Davis were a FA this summer he'd get paid more than 10 million anyway. Saving our money is going to be next to impossible.

    We keep coming back to this but there's really only one reason not to like DeRozan and that's his outside shooting. Everything else he does holds great value. The lack of a jumper is important and it's a solid argument against him, but I want him despite that. I have faith in Luke to build an offense that will accommodate anyone we sign. Previous percentage for all our players should decrease anyway because Luke's offense will be about ball movement more than who has the ball.
     
    ElginTheGreat, Weezy and Lakers2015 like this.

Share This Page