LABron James Discussion: 4 Years $153M

Discussion in 'Lakers Discussion' started by therealdeal, Jun 8, 2017.

  1. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    No, you're trolling because of the way you're going about disagreeing. I honestly don't know how you can't see it. Just step back for a minute and read this thread. This isn't a discussion, there's 2-3 of us talking at you and you brick walling solid arguments with "who cares". That's not what this site should be about. People disagree with me all the time. @abeer3 , @Barnstable , @TIME occasionally, @ZenMaster basically nonstop, but if they provide solid reasoning for their argument, there's no reason to not have a civil discussion. Sometimes people just disagree. What you're doing is the opposite of that. It's us giving up thoughtful responses and you putting your fingers in your ears and saying "no".

    In your opinion, that's fine and I think during that Finals it became clear that LeBron can't do it alone at the same level he used to be able to. I also think it was a stepping up point for Durant who hadn't had the opportunity to capitalize on that stage in years; in fact the last time he had that shot LeBron walked through him. But to watch that series and pretend like LeBron didn't carry that team there and that the Warriors didn't form a superteam to beat him is ignoring LeBron for the sake of it. Flippantly dismissing how well he played (honestly this is where he finally earned my respect as a competitor) in that series is foolish. And you thinking LeBron will regress rapidly is just your opinion. There's little evidence to support that claim from LeBron himself although of course we all know Father Time is undefeated.

    Besides, those of us advocating for LeBron are all in agreement that he'll likely suffer a drop in production towards the end of the deal, but we're okay with that given that a drop in production is a drop from one to somewhere respectable and in that time frame, we'll be competing for titles. I'd rather compete for titles now than wait when we don't have to. Everyone who hates LeBron can feel free to do so, but if we're hoisting the Larry O'Brien trophy hopefully all of can enjoy that time together.

    Oh I'm free to disagree for sure. I've been the devil's advocate in this thread for months now. I'm just letting you know that you can argue better than you've doing this morning. Shrugging off his accomplishments isn't a good argument when the best argument really is "do we want to pay 38 year old LeBron 40 million"? See? Much better than "who cares about averaging a triple double in the Finals, it's inflated. Durant beat him so easily!"
     
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  2. vasashi17

    vasashi17 Moderator Staff Member

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    LaBron's past accomplishments have everything to do with projecting how his career goes. First his "past" is actually his current accomplishments. He's presently on a 7 consecutive Finals streak. He won a title 2 years ago. Jules meanwhile has "led" last placed defensive teams and record setting losing teams in Lakers history. Looking at their track records, its easy to project which player will contribute to legitimate title contention.

    LaBron's last lengthy contract was 3 years, which is his current contract, and it actually looks like it could only be a 2 year commitment since he's going to opt out this summer. Again, based off of track record, what makes you so confident he's about to sign a 5 year pact if he has yet to do anything of the sort in recent years (btw he's only allowed to sign a 4 year 158M max deal with the Lakers...only the Cavs can offer a 5th year as part of a 205M max deal to him). His first year in Miami, he took less than his max to squeeze in Bosh and still have Wade get paid. His first year back in Cleveland, he took less than his max to accommodate the Love trade and round out the roster. Paying the guy max money at age 37-39 is your own projection based on nothing substantial, other than your personal dislike for the guy.

    On one hand you're projecting that LaBron will have a massive injury in the next few years (in spite of his track record saying otherwise), yet you want to throw the bank at your guy Jules, with the one full year he's missed and you would rather have only George sign this summer instead of 2 max guys, with the one year he's missed and you think Kawhi is a better player than LaBron right now, with roughly the one full year that he's missed and you think KD is better than LaBron with the one year he was shut down do to injury and OKC missed the playoffs as a result (2014/15 season). If you want to project that LaBron's heavy minutes and lengthy consecutive trips into the playoffs will lead to an inevitable debilitating injury, then wouldn't that same principle apply to players that actually do have the medical history and are more likely to re-injury as a result? Now consider the above the rim, revved up motor Bullyius plays with and how the extra strain and duress his body goes through on a nightly basis can lead to a possible injury. If you want to consider LaBron's likelihood of injury, lets not turn a blind eye on Jules and George, since their medical file corroborates a high chance in re-injury while LaBron has never missed a full season's worth of work due to injury.

    When it comes to defense, Jules ain't even leading the Lakers in defensive stats (6th overall in defensive rating behind Zo, Nance, Clarkson, KCP and BI and 7th overall in defensive win shares behind that same group along with Kuz), let alone a league leader. Meanwhile LaBron is surely having a down year this season, but who cares about the regular season, its all about the defense you bring in late April to June...during last year's postseason, he was only behind Dray, Klay and Steph in advanced defensive stats (with comparable minutes). Ggo figure, that those 2 teams would run the table towards the Finals.

    Man I want to work with you here, cause its pretty obvious that Jules w/2 stars here is a far better combination than Jules w/1 star. Money has to be sacrificed for that to happen. I've conceded that LaBron and George should cut some off the top of their maxes in order to retain Jules. But that can't work if Jules is demanding close to max money. If we play it right, we get all those 3, along with some wiggle underneath the cap to still use the room exception on a player like Brook or a bulky center so that Jules isn't relegated to playing against legit 275-300 lb 7 footers....cause of course, we wouldn't want to lose him to injury after we sign him to a big money deal. And if we lose Jules, then that's more strain on LaBron and that makes him more susceptible to injury...but I don't have to convince you with that, do I?
     
  3. ZenMaster

    ZenMaster - Lakers Starter -

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    @tada Just leave it...
     
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  4. tada

    tada - Lakers Starter -

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    Hmm, OK I'm fine with that. But I honestly don't get why you brought up trolling when I pointed out the inflation in stats. I thought that was a valid point and it was a genuine post. I re-read my posts, and while they may be dismissive, why they would be taken as provocative and trollish behavior I don't understand.
     
  5. tada

    tada - Lakers Starter -

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    Yeah I think I will. I don't want to get under people's skin. That's not my intent.
     
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  6. sirronstuff

    sirronstuff LB Facebook Editor

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    If LLLLL COMES TO LA, THE PREFERENTIAL REF TREATMENT WILL LIKELY END.
     
  7. tada

    tada - Lakers Starter -

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    @vasashi17 Read your post, but it's probably a good idea for me to sit this one out ;)
     
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  8. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    It was the way you were dismissive of real arguments without countering with a better point. For the most part a solid argument was greeted with:

    [​IMG]

    and a wave off. It's not a big deal to disagree, but when given good arguments, they should have taken into consideration, that's all. We're all here to have good discussions and I completely understand that my take on LeBron is the minority take not only here, but in Laker fandom. I just want to provide counterpoints to the way we all generally feel toward LeBron. Especially since he'll be here soon. ;)

    As for the inflation of stats, I think the inflation is real during the season, but those numbers don't typically translate into the playoffs because the stakes go up and defenses improve. The guy averaged a triple double in the Finals. If that's inflation, then so is Durant's numbers, no? So neither of them dominated or both of them did.
     
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  9. sirronstuff

    sirronstuff LB Facebook Editor

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  10. Punk-101

    Punk-101 - Lakers 6th Man -

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    No way! That had to have been during a dead ball situation right?
     
  11. Battle Tested20

    Battle Tested20 - Lakers All Star -

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    upload_2018-3-12_11-8-44.png
     
  12. vasashi17

    vasashi17 Moderator Staff Member

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    See I can understand the argument of not wanting LaBron due to personal taste. You acknowledge he's still good and would help us win rings, but you would rather slow play it by developing our youth and possibly waiting till the Dubs end their reign (don't mean to put words in your mouth, but that is what is implied with the slow burn approach).

    In adding 2max players this summer some will see it as an unsatisfying fast track to contention. Not everyone wants to cheat code their way to a title, but I see what the Warriors did in adding KD as a cheaters, non-competitive approach. That is exactly why I don't want to wait out the Dubs...I want to bring it to their head now. Lets compete now instead of honoring them (disservicing us) by waiting it out.

    You give our youth true vets (non-MozDeng) and look at how quickly they will develop. Plus nothing gives you more of a growth spurt than the playoffs. LaBron, along with George gives us that and if you look at who's elite out West, its GS and Houston. Luke is trying to make our squad look like GS, while we're also intending to push tempo like D'antoni's team by actually leading the league in that mofo. We've got the recipe, but now we need the ingredients. You bring in 2 max players, and we'll be cookin in no time. GS has 4 all-stars, Houston has 2 all-stars....we need to close that gap. With our 2max plan, we'll have 2 stars with the potential crop of players ready to bud into that type of all-star player.

    The same way Shaq pushed Kobe's development into overdrive, I expect LaBron to do with our youngns. I'm starving for #17, so lets go get it asap, while we have our youth renaissance. Win-win!

    @tada no worries bro. I woulda savagely trolled your a** and then hid behind the mod card when those LB goons came a knocking. :Headbang:
     
  13. sirronstuff

    sirronstuff LB Facebook Editor

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  14. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  15. Weezy

    Weezy Moderator Staff Member

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    Oh what sad times are these when LeBron dominates Lakers Discussion when our own players are ballin’ out so hard. There is a pestilence upon this land, nothing is sacred. Even those who have LeBron for legitimate reasons are under considerable conflicted feelings stress at this period in history.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. tada

    tada - Lakers Starter -

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    OK cool, but Lebron won't come :)

    As for inflation of stats, it's certainly valid for the Finals as well. The Cavs scored a record 49 points in a quarter and 139 points in a game, the most in 30 years. A triple-double is certainly no small feat, but the pace helps a ton. I mean, in the 1998 Finals, the average score from both teams was 84.1 points. In the 2017 Finals the average score was 118.2 pts. That's 29% less opportunities for points, boards and assists. So a 30-10-10 type performance in 2017 would translate to 21-7-7 in 1998, just to put things into perspective.
     
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  17. Khmrp

    Khmrp - Lakers All Star -

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    If James stats are inflated n empty....so is EVERY other nba players
     
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  18. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    Which would still be an incredible feat, but that doesn't really matter to me anyway because PACE is often cyclical.

    Look at the PACE in the 80s. The PACE never dropped below 99.6 which would be lower than last year's and LeBron's Finals run. Are we going to discount Magic's numbers because there were so many possessions back then?

    Magic in the Finals:

    1980 (PACE = 103.1)- 22.6 points, 11.6 rebounds, 8.4 assists, 2.6 steals, 0.4 blocks.

    That was one of the great Finals performances of all time. Are we going to dock him some points because the PACE was too fast?
     
  19. shoe

    shoe - Rookie -

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    ^ Exactly...if LeBron's stats are "inflated" due to pace then so were Magics....
     
  20. tada

    tada - Lakers Starter -

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    No, we aren't going to discredit Magic's numbers. I brought up the inflation in stats in response to this part of your post.

    I'm sure Magic could have done that with today's pace and influx of the 3-point shot.

    Not to take a shot at your point (again, not being dismissive either), but I really can't take any "record-breaking" stats serious nowadays. I refuse to believe that Westbrook and Harden are as good as their numbers suggest. Or maybe I'm wrong and they're Top 5 all-time.
     

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