I work for my father's software company, we're a small company and had to downsize further because of hard times. We only have an overseas office overseas now and I have to go to work at client's offices or at home when I'm back. To help us out my father's 'friend' who is an older jewish guy (I would say gentleman but he's far from that) from NYC said hey I want to have a team there overseas to cut down my costs here in US and we wanted to share expenses overseas and we we're for it. So my father agreed with him that they will share 1/3 of all expenses. Which is very cheap at our old office since it was rent controlled for 6+ years (rent was around $750, but now rent is much higher if you move) Assuming everything was handled between them (I'm running the day to day operations trying to modernize the program with e-commerce integration and improving our support & development procedures), I come to our office to only find out they weren't billed for 7 months. When I asked him about payment since they weren't billed. He immediately got defensive and asked for a detailed report of all expenses. Which of course he's titled to and I gave him a very detailed excel sheet by - Month - Splitting salary, rent, internet, electricity and cash expenses accordingly to the agreement He asked me to reformat the excel sheet around 4-5 times, wasting my managers time there and mine. Saying that he can't read and its not clear, after the 5th time its obvious he's just playing games and saying I have an attitude. We had to move because of unforeseen issues (government corruption), Again I had to negotiate extensively to split our new office expenses, which was substantially higher. This was a headache going back and forth and it was finally done. I was leaving the balance until I get everything settled down here. Again he said I had an attitude problem when I said, we would need to go our separate ways if we don't come to a fair agreement. (now it was divided by the # of staff) He also refused to pay any security deposit for this new office. Claiming he doesn't have the funds, when the office spaces he looked at we're nearly $1000 USD in cost which would of meant a higher security deposit and someone that flies first class over here. He's also asking us to help him hire programmers, help purchasing computers, things we don't have time to do, and things that he as a grown man should do himself. The emails are constant and fast when its something that he needs help with, but when it comes to payment its completely ignored. I mentioned the balance again and I was ignored even after we had purchased a laptop for the conference room (I did it because my father said lets just do it and show good faith) and mentioned we are splitting the cost of the laptop. (since its mainly for him anyways, I don't usually do face 2 face meetings over Skype or whatever. We have Trello, slack, and freshdesk that fulfills most of our needs) Still no reply, now I have to force my hand. I informed him we will have to raise $500-$1000 on your invoice (import/export for international wire, if invoice amount doesn't match, bank does not release the money). At least I have the decency to let him know, unlike himself who just sat there 7 months not paying any bills and then avoiding it when its brought up and getting defensive. Then he replies to my father only and says I have an attitude problem and if he wants his team out of the office. I definitely do and did before. I know this sounds ridiculously childish but man I just need some outside opinion. In my 10+ years working with my clients, managers, and owners this is the most ridiculous thing I've ever faced. Am I in the wrong? Its just driving me insane. He's an older businessman, he has a Manhattan office, etc ,etc so it does make me think that maybe I'm doing something wrong.
Man, sorry about your situation. Anyways, do you have a contract with the said businessman? Verbal agreements are void in court, so unless you have anything in writing, the guy has no motivation whatsoever to take money out of his pockets. When someone gets defensive, especially with some superficial excuse like "attitude problems", that someone is in the wrong. Back to my previous point, if you had a contract to begin with, he can say every damn thing he can, but he is still liable for payment. If you'd like to save rental costs, you may want to consider forming a virtual team instead, where everyone is remote with each other. As for administrative matters like attendance, time logs, etc. just be creative I guess. A daily standup at 8am or 9am should be an indicator for tardiness. Late to non-responses to chat messages or video calls should indicate one's performance. You get the point. The older businessman you're talking about sounds like a really shrewd dude and I personally, would stay away from people like him, in general. You are on the right track, though. You should get him to shut up and pay up, first and foremost.
Thanks man, your words help more than you know. Especially coming from someone thats outside looking in. No there is no verbal contract, my dad is a bit unconventional. I don know if its because he grew up in the 70s where being a rebel was cool or whatever, but yeah this businessman is fully taking advantage of it. I know at the end what he's thinking, I don't have to pay this guy legally. The invoice does help, if the bank invoice doesn't match what he sends they'll withhold payment for his team. I've gotten so many white hairs and I barely have time to watch laker games and this guy wants us to hire, evaluate, pay for his equipment and he doesn't want to pay his share or his debt. Its definitely a lesson learned, the idea will work in US (as we eventually expand when we get more sales and our financial status is better) but it wouldn't work over here because of the just the standard of professionalism. Thanks, any advice and opinion is appreciated and I soak every thing (MAMBA STYLE). Sorry about the grammar, I'm rage posting lol. I noticed I spelled paid as payed in the reply. lol
Oh just to take into context. My first email reply was when he ignored my office manager twice about sharing the laptop in the conference room that HE wanted. Any 13 year old can purchase a good laptop. Either he's helpless or he just wants someone else to do work for him, I believe its the latter. My second reply was after he ignored my email as well, its just crazy. Anything regarding payment he makes it extremely difficult and requires 5 emails back and forth of pointless negotiating thats saving literally Pennies on the dollar. I couldn't help get angry earlier this week at their team because they were on a 2 hour conference call using our EMERGENCY support line. Which is for our customers during USA work hours.. This support line is for when there are shipment errors or support request from USA because we're under manned there. I need to WOOSAH my a** to sleep other wise I'm just angry in bed.
By my estimate of the man's age, I don't think he knows anything about gadgets and stuff BUT I do think he also wants somebody else to do the dirty work for him, so it's probably both. An authoritarian type of person that only wants profits and none of the expenses is a lethal combination.
He has his son working for him who's probably couple years younger than me, he definitely could of but didn't. Theres definitely a sense of entitlement, its kind of ridiculous considering we're helping them out and then he's asking us to do spend our time consulting, hiring, and even teaching their programmers. I definitely said no this, since we're hitting hard times and we need to spend every minute we can on our own projects. I'm from LA so generally you don't see that type of stuff. I'm not sure if its because he's a rich white jewish (please do not take this as some sort of anti-semitism, I'm just stating this because maybe someone can enlighten me if its a cultural thing that older jewish males don't tolerate) male from Manhattan. I've been going to the east coast since I was a kid because of my fathers business, I noticed its much more conservative here and racism is a bit more relevant. Not extreme racism, but from my experience people tend to think 'Koreans' (I'm Korean American) think or act a certain way, or that we always receive things under the table or do some sort of shady business practice. Which we don't. I know racism is everywhere, but coming from someone that was born in raised in LA and been going to NY nearly my whole life its kind of there. My father said he's a businessman, but quite frankly he seems naive and we basically have to hold his hand through everything. Coming form someone that had no help and had to literally research everything like laws and such. I'm not sure how he had a high business position when the man lacks common sense. From my office manager, I hear him and his son are literally saying just web scrape this website and automate it in the interviews. Thats basically telling a construction worker or and architect to build me a building in the interview or make them a blue print. We interviews 15-20 programmers saying they're not good, salary too high, or its because they couldn't web scrape then and there. Wasting my my manager's time and our senior developer after the 10th interview I told my manager to remove my senior developer from the interviews. These interviews take time and we do a basic skills test that takes time to evaluate. A programming language my senior developer isn't very well versed in but we did it any ways in good faith. He seems to think we have a 'special' process, asking what we do and keeps asking my office manager after I already informed him we don't do anything different. It's a developing country and people lie about their resumes all the time even in the US ( its just much more common here). So he's basically crying to us he can't get a 'perfect' programmer, when he doesn't even know one lick of programming. I highly doubt he would consult for us, hire for us, have his staff take time from their work to help us out while not paying a 4K debt. The man picks on every little expense i.e. a 100 Rupee expense for office cleaning supplies , which would be around $1.25. Its pretty clear they just want to exploit and take advantage of out sourcing here. I've been coming here for 10 years, my father longer we're a small company and with the culture here we're like a small family. I try to take care of my employees as best as I can and I do not take raises so we can just spend that revenue on hiring power and improve the company. All this guy wants to do is avoid paying data entry salary in Manhattan. I've seen their process, its basically mindless and repetitive, the just need to meet their quota. He's also 'afraid' to lose these mindless data entry guys that don't really exercise any critical thinking in their daily tasks. This really makes me question his intelligence and wisdom. Again, thanks its just solidifying my decision and making it easier to make.
This guy sounds like a lot of “business men” that actually just use authoritarian tactics to get their way, but in the end you are being taken advantage of and they don’t know or don’t want to do things in a healthy manner. You seem to be demanding nothing but reasonable expectations to properly run a business and he’s ducking expenses and taking resources that could be contributing to other areas of the company. Personally I wouldn’t even continue any kind of relationship with a person like that because they are a cancer to your business. They take way more mental and physical resources than they contribute to your success. However you might need to take this to your father and get him on your side to realize this guy is a cancer. If your dad is numbers oriented, show him how many man hours, hours of paid services the guy uses up, and how much he owes the company. Hopefully that will be a wake up call, but one way or another, your relationship needs to be severed. From what you’re describing, the guys mentality about what is owed to him is the problem.
You've done your part, have been more than fair and patient, and it's not in your character to pull the stuff he's pulling. He's not the kind of guy you want for a partner, and he made that clear very early on. I waste no time in moving on, as delay only exposes you to further losses. He's not a partner. Partners don't treat partners that way. Good people don't treat other good people that way. If you don't have the money, just be honest about it and back out. Don't use manipulation and guilt tactics to lengthen your freebies. Such a terrible situation. Such a douche. Guy reminds of Lebron James. JK.
Eating a potato chip! Tell me more. This guy sounds like a well off jerk! Lose him fast... Sent from my XT1609 using Tapatalk
