Head Coach Frank Vogel Discussion: The Fall Guy

Discussion in 'NBA Discussion' started by TIME, May 13, 2019.

  1. Slick2021

    Slick2021 - Lakers All Star -

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2021
    Messages:
    7,096
    Likes Received:
    6,257
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    See above
     
  2. abeer3

    abeer3 - Lakers Legend -

    Top Poster Of Month

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    25,705
    Likes Received:
    69,920
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    oh, good. "multiple ones". perhaps including luke walton.

    fire vogel is this year's trade kuzma.
     
  3. Slick2021

    Slick2021 - Lakers All Star -

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2021
    Messages:
    7,096
    Likes Received:
    6,257
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    Did you advocate for Frank Vogel when Luke got fired? Tell me what exactly Vogel does that separates him from other coaches? There are plenty of guys that know the game, this idea that Frank is the only coach capable of doing a good job here is laughable.
     
  4. LaVarBallsDad

    LaVarBallsDad - Lakers Legend -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    16,172
    Likes Received:
    31,056
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    I like David Adleman.

    I'm sure if I look there's other assistants I could mention.

    But I like Vogel. Would rather stay the course there.
     
    abeer3 and ElginTheGreat like this.
  5. ElginTheGreat

    ElginTheGreat - Lakers MVP -

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2014
    Messages:
    10,173
    Likes Received:
    28,309
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    I have to be honest and say I don't necessarily buy into the thought that no one else could coach us, particularly when factoring in lead assistant coaches out there. I just don't know that we would find them. The team has not shown an ability to really do coaching searches and even when great options pop up (Monty Williams) we whiff on them.

    If replacing the coach means hiring a real search firm and identifying someone who could work with this roster, then I could see it even though its a bit unfair to Vogel. But with us a coaching change means Fiz or Derrick Fisher or Rambis or fill in the blank former laker.

    So, I think Vogel should stay. He needs to get his rotations right, but overall just the fact that this thing has lasted this long without imploding says a lot to me about him. He also lead the team to a title, etc etc.

    That only goes so far though. It's a tough business and this is the league's premier franchise. Vogel's got to find a way to work with what he has, get this team on the same page and playing well. Some of the problem from the front office with him is beyond just losing but how we are losing and I get that part of it.

    So yeah, he's in a tough spot and I don't know if he will last past the All Star break. But, as I've said a few times, heavy is the crown or whatever cliche' you want to use here.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2022
    abeer3, lakerjones and LaVarBallsDad like this.
  6. LTLakerFan

    LTLakerFan - Lakers Legend -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    34,633
    Likes Received:
    58,139
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    So Cal
    Offline
    How bout Fish and Rambis and let’s run the Triangle …. who says No? Do it Jeanie!
     
    Juronimo and sirronstuff like this.
  7. alam1108

    alam1108 - Lakers Legend -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    13,498
    Likes Received:
    37,006
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Laker Land
    Offline
    Everyone who’s ready to fire Vogel and pinning all the problems on him… who are you hiring thats going to fix this team. Give me names.

    And honestly do you think the front office is smart enough to even hire said guys. We’ve failed on every coaching hire since Phil Jackson. Mike Brown, Mike ‘Antoni, Byron, Luke… hell we floundered the Lue and Monty interviews by not giving them the years they wanted and forcing Kidd on them. This team doesn’t know HOW to hire coaches.
     
    pika1708, 432J, abeer3 and 1 other person like this.
  8. Cookie

    Cookie The Dame of Doom Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2015
    Messages:
    4,171
    Likes Received:
    20,862
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline

    You keep saying people don’t ask you questions. Yes they do, you just don’t answer them. Multiple ones is not a name.
     
    wallangong, Weezy, abeer3 and 3 others like this.
  9. Khmrp

    Khmrp - Lakers MVP -

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2016
    Messages:
    11,855
    Likes Received:
    13,584
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    so we have a bunch of offensive players that dont try or know how to play def, so why offense suck too then?
     
  10. The Rock

    The Rock - Lakers Starter -

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2014
    Messages:
    2,928
    Likes Received:
    7,427
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    Lionel Hollins is one solid name. He's been around our guys as the assistant coach 2019 to 2021. It sucks that our FO poorly handled his release situation but if they're willing to swallow their pride he would be an adequate replacement for Vogel if lineup changes can be a solution to our on-court issues.

    I have always liked D'Antoni. I don't think he got a fair shake when he took over after Mike Brown in 2012/2013. He's not a great defensive coach but I think he can unlock AD's full offensive repertoire (I can see Russ and Melo having a problem with him).

    No coach is perfect, lots of + and -. It depends on what you're willing to live with

    Dwight might get phased out too if MDA is here . One legit knock on MDA is he doesn't practice defense enough.

    Both of these candidates have the pedigree to get the respect from Lebron and AD IMO.

    Both guys are old and are immunocompromised folks


    EDIT: Forgot about Terry Stotts
     
    ElginTheGreat and abeer3 like this.
  11. LTLakerFan

    LTLakerFan - Lakers Legend -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    34,633
    Likes Received:
    58,139
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    So Cal
    Offline
    Why do you keep throwing his name out there when it's clear all he wants to do is relive the Phoenix / Nash days with even smaller and lesser players than he had on that pretty great squad ... especially with his history here? Plus he's too old and already quit the Nets. Glad you like him though.
     
  12. sirronstuff

    sirronstuff - Lakers Legend -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    30,233
    Likes Received:
    74,597
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Making you asset free AND happy by 2030
    Location:
    Davos, Switzerland
    Offline
    Nobody is going to let us swipe their head coach this season during mid season, so we immediately thin the ranks there.

    Here is a NBA Coaches site that lists Assistant coaches. Most would not leave their teams mid year, but maybe for a franchise not in playoff contention, they would allow it for a pick for compensation or something like that. Many former head coaches are on that list.

    https://nbacoaches.com/nba-assistant-coaches/

    Warriors:
    Ron Adams
    Kenny Atkinson
    Mike Brown
    Chris DeMarco
    Bruce Fraser
    Jama Mahlalela
    Dejan Milojevic

    Clippers:
    Jeremy Castleberry
    Dan Craig
    Larry Drew
    Shaun Fein
    Dahntay Jones
    Jay Larranaga
    Brendan O’Connor
    Brian Shaw
    Todd Wright

    Lakers:
    Quinton Crawford
    David Fizdale
    Phil Handy
    John Lucas III
    Mike Penberthy
    Miles Simon

    Suns:
    Randy Ayers
    Mark Bryant
    Bryan Gates
    Jarrett Jack
    Brian Randle
    Michael Ruffin
    Steve Scalzi
    Kevin Young

    Kings:
    Stacey Augmon
    Doug Christie
    Lindsey Harding
    Jonah Herscu
    Rico Hines
    Michael Longabardi

    Dallas:
    Jared Dudley
    Igor Kokoskov
    God Shammgod (The obvious choice since we need a miracle haha)
    Greg St. Jean
    Sean Sweeney
    Kristi Toliver

    Rockets:
    DeSagana Diop
    Rick Higgins
    Jeff Hornacek
    John Lucas
    Will Weaver

    MEMPHIS
    GRIZZLIES

    Blake Ahearn
    Brad Jones
    David McClure
    James “Scoonie” Penn
    Vitaly Potapenko
    Darko Rajakovic
    Sonia Raman

    NEW ORLEANS
    PELICANS

    Jarron Collins
    Ryan Frazier
    Casey Hill
    Fred Vinson
    Teresa Weatherspoon

    SAN ANTONIO
    SPURS

    Chip Engelland
    Becky Hammon
    Mitchell Johnson
    Matt Neilsen
    Darius Songaila

    DENVERNUGGETS
    David Adelman
    John Beckett
    Ryan Bowen
    Jordi Fernandez
    Popeye Jones
    Charles Klask
    Ognjen Stojakovic
    Elvis Valcarcel

    MINNESOTATIMBERWOLVES
    Joe Boylan
    Kevin Hanson
    Micah Nori
    Pablo Prigioni
    Elston Turner

    OKLAHOMA CITY
    THUNDER

    David Akinyooye
    David Bliss
    Mike Wilks
    Kameron Woods

    PORTLAND
    TRAIL BLAZERS

    Matt Brase
    Scott Brooks
    Edniesha Curry
    Steve Hetzel
    Roy Rogers

    UTAH
    JAZZ

    Bryan Bailey
    Dell Demps
    Erdem Can
    Keyon Dooling
    Alex Jensen
    Vince Legarza
    Sergi Oliva
    Irv Roland
    Lamar Skeeter
    Jeff Watkinson
    Mike Wells

    ATLANTA
    HAWKS

    Matt Hill
    Chris Jent
    Jamelle McMillan
    Joe Prunty
    Nick Van Exel

    CHARLOTTE
    HORNETS

    Nick Freidman
    Dutch Gaitley
    Marlon Garnett
    Jay Hernandez
    Chad Iske
    Norman Richardson
    Jay Triano

    MIAMI
    HEAT

    Malik Allen
    Caron Butler
    Anthony Carter
    Octavio De La Grana
    Eric Glass
    Chris Quinn

    ORLANDO
    MAGIC

    Bret Breilmaier
    Lionel Chalmers
    Bruce Kreutzer
    Jesse Mermuys
    Dylan Murphy
    Dale Osbourne
    Nathan Tibbetts

    WASHINGTON
    WIZARDS

    Joseph Blair
    Pat Delany
    Zach Guthrie
    Alex McLean
    Mike Miller
    Dean Oliver
    Ryan Richman

    CHICAGO
    BULLS

    John Bryant
    Maurice Cheeks
    Damian Cotter
    Chris Fleming
    Josh Longstaff
    Billy Schmidt

    CLEVELAND
    CAVALIERS

    Greg Buckner
    Antonio Lang
    Sidney Lowe
    J.J. Outlaw

    DETROIT
    PISTONS

    Jerome Allen
    DJ Bakker
    Bill Bayno
    John Beilein
    Jordan Brink
    Jarred Dubois
    Austin Dufault
    Drew Jones
    Rex Kalamian
    Jim Moran
    Alex Zampier

    INDIANA
    PACERS

    Jenny Boucek
    Calbert Cheaney
    Tyler Marsh
    Ronald Nored
    Jannero Pargo
    Lloyd Pierce
    Mike Weinar

    MILWAUKEE
    BUCKS

    Vin Baker
    Mike Dunlap
    Chad Forcier
    Darvin Ham
    Charles Lee Jr.
    Josh Oppenheimer
    Patrick St. Andrews

    BOSTON C Bags
    Tony Dobbins
    Will Hardy
    Joe Mazzulla
    Aaron Miles
    Damon Stoudamire
    Ben Sullivan

    BROOKLYN NETS
    Ryan Forehan-Kelly
    Adam Harrington
    Royal Ivey
    Brian Keefe
    Jordan Ott
    Tiago Splitter
    David Vanterpool
    Jacque Vaughn

    NEW YORK
    KNICKS

    Johnnie Bryant
    Darren Erman
    Andy Greer
    Kenny Payne

    PHILADELPHIA
    76ERS

    Brian Adams
    Dan Burke
    Sam Cassell
    Eric Hughes
    David Joerger
    Dwayne Jones
    Todor Pandov
    Jamie Young

    TORONTO
    RAPTORS

    Trevor Gleeson
    Jon Goodwillie
    Adrian Griffin
    Nate Mitchell
    Patrick Mutombo
    Jim Sann
    Earl Watson
     
  13. The Rock

    The Rock - Lakers Starter -

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2014
    Messages:
    2,928
    Likes Received:
    7,427
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline

    Can you name a coach who can maximize AD (who I think is our most important player)
     
    abeer3 likes this.
  14. abeer3

    abeer3 - Lakers Legend -

    Top Poster Of Month

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    25,705
    Likes Received:
    69,920
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    no, i wanted monty williams but was fine with vogel over lue.

    this idea that no one said and you invented because you're losing the argument?

    many of us are saying no one can do a good job here. not the same thing.

    yep. i keep asking, and i'm getting nothing. or worse, i'm getting: dantoni (i mean, omg, can we get any more 2012 if we tried?!). btw, rock, i agree that dantoni could win more games with this team because he'd just pull out the houston playbook from 19-20...and then get blasted by someone like frank vogel in the playoffs.

    hollins? he's washed out a few times already, no? and isn't he like 937 years old?

    i don't know who david adelman is (rick's son?), but that's one of the only other serious suggestions anyone's made.


    mostly because russ and THT play 25-30mpg and can't shoot? lebron is no longer a threat to get to the rim in isolation? we turn the ball over too much due to poor spacing because our guards can't shoot?

    we've also not had anything close to our full lineup at all this year. just huge changes left and right, with an almost fully replaced roster.

    but yeah, let's bring in lionel hollins to right the ship.
     
    Cookie likes this.
  15. LTLakerFan

    LTLakerFan - Lakers Legend -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    34,633
    Likes Received:
    58,139
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    So Cal
    Offline
    So the f*** what when you weigh it against ALL the negatives you and I both listed. Seriously?
     
  16. The Rock

    The Rock - Lakers Starter -

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2014
    Messages:
    2,928
    Likes Received:
    7,427
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    We are asking for half a season and we are entering spring/summer time after the All star game. He's not gonna be here for longer than that

    You think LBJ and AD are here to help a young coach learn on the fly? (which is what Vogel is doing right now)
     
    ElginTheGreat likes this.
  17. abeer3

    abeer3 - Lakers Legend -

    Top Poster Of Month

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    25,705
    Likes Received:
    69,920
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    this is great, if only for me to see some blasts from the past: sagana diop and tiago splitter are coaches? a scoonie penn sighting?! jannero pargo? royal ivey? damon stoudamire? aaron miles?

    anyway, kenny atkinson has always interested me. he got jobbed in brooklyn. steve nash is larry browning his rick carlisle there.

    but atkinson is a lot like vogel in a lot of ways.

    maybe becky hammon? let's really muck it up.
     
  18. sirronstuff

    sirronstuff - Lakers Legend -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    30,233
    Likes Received:
    74,597
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Making you asset free AND happy by 2030
    Location:
    Davos, Switzerland
    Offline
    ElginTheGreat and abeer3 like this.
  19. LTLakerFan

    LTLakerFan - Lakers Legend -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    34,633
    Likes Received:
    58,139
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    So Cal
    Offline
    I think?? You think(??) ... in the first place, that Jeanie would bring him back after how that debacle went down the first time? Why even bring it up?
     
  20. abeer3

    abeer3 - Lakers Legend -

    Top Poster Of Month

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    25,705
    Likes Received:
    69,920
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    right. or his brother?! surely a van gundy will have this team contending in no time.
     

Share This Page