D'Angelo Russell Discussion: Defense... "That's Not What I Do"

Discussion in 'Lakers Discussion' started by The Original 81, Jun 25, 2015.

  1. Wino

    Wino - Lakers Starter -

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    Maybe this has already been mentioned but there has been some word out there that this is just a temporary move by the Warriors. Replace Klay with Russ until Klay comes back and then trade him for a more complimentary piece.
     
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  2. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

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    It has. Warriors are saying that’s false, but who knows?
     
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  3. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

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    Warriors reportedly add Willie Cayley-Stein and Glenn Robinson III.
     
  4. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

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    Point Guard
    Curry +15 (88) 6.68/3.54/2.38
    .Evans* -18 (49) 2.24/1.70/1.31

    Shooting Guard
    Russell +3 (90) 6.42/4.15/2.40
    .Poole**
    ..Oni**

    Small Forward
    (Thompson) +5 (68) 6.23/2.51/2.33
    Robinson -2 (44) 4.95/1.80/2.34
    .Smailagic**

    Power Forward
    Green +5 (72-Initiator) 4.36/4.11/2.91
    .McKinnie* -11 (70) 5.01/1.71/2.98
    ..Paschall**

    Center
    Looney +1 (93) 5.02/2.73/3.79
    Cauley-Stein +1 (88) 5.51/2.79/3.39
    .Jones -1 (78) 4.79/2.17/3.39

    They're managing to get some solid pickups. That Center rotation is NOICE.
     
  5. tada

    tada - Lakers All Star -

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    I can't believe that people actually think the Warriors are no longer a contender. They won 73 games with a similar roster minus Iggy.
     
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  6. Weezy

    Weezy Moderator Staff Member

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    They’re a contender, but they’re no longer what they were. Their initial greatness had a lot to do with depth and defense, their depth has been severely depleted. Also Iggy was their Finals MVP in 2015, he was a huge part of that team. Look at their 73 win roster and compare it to now, it’s just not the same, and with Klay out they will not be the same Warriors, as good as Russ is and with the strides he’s made. Also factor in a Curry who is coming off of 5 straight Finals, fatigue has to take hold at some point

    https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/GSW/2016.html

    Retaining Looney and adding WCS and Robinson help, but they lost Iggy, Cook, Bell, and probably will lose Livingston (not even mentioning Durant and Cousins). It’s an almost entirely different roster outside the main core of Curry, Klay, and Green, and they’ll need to rely on their draft picks more than they have in a while too. I think Curry, Russ, and Green keep them a playoff contender, but not a title contender unless Klay makes an incredibly quick recovery.
     
  7. KB24

    KB24 Administrator Staff Member

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    I also think the Warriors are done for now.

    Their stars are now on the wrong side of 30 with the toll of 5 consecutive finals...

    Also they used to have a killer 8 man rotation...Iggy and Livingston are pretty much done. Also their game has changed with Durant over the years. They can't just flip a switch and go back to the old system.

    Klay will be healthy again but next season, he certainly won't be the same. So at least for next season, they are done. They can possibly recover in the season after this but take into consideration...they will then also be 2 years older...so its all pretty shaky right now in the bay area.
     
  8. tada

    tada - Lakers All Star -

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    I disagree with you guys. They just cruised past the Rockets in the Western Finals without Durant or Cousins. (flipped the switch) Their system is so mature just like the Spurs. As long as they have their Big 3, they can plug in new players and operate seamlessly. It's like deja vu with the way people repetitively downplayed the Spurs. The Warriors will always be a contender with Steph, Klay and Draymond intact.

    BTW only Steph is 30. Klay and Green are 29. They are in the midst of their primes and just getting started.
     
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  9. KB24

    KB24 Administrator Staff Member

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    I can't say you are wrong...its not particularly smart to bet against the Warriors...

    Not only do they still have a great core, they also have the best front office in the league and a great coach. Is it impossible that they are contenders? certainly not.

    But I would assume that when a guy like Durant leaves your team, you will automatically come down a earth a bit.
     
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  10. tada

    tada - Lakers All Star -

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    I hear you too. Durant made them the overwhelming favorites to win the title but they were still the favorites without him. Heck they probably would have won the title if Klay stayed healthy. I don't understand how they could go from that to being done by shuffling some role players and adding Dlo. And honestly I think it was smart on their part to release Iggy. He turns 36 and has maybe a year left in his tank.
     
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  11. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

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    I have been acquainting myself with their draft picks. They seem to have gotten some incredibly promising young guys, too.
     
  12. Weezy

    Weezy Moderator Staff Member

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    I see a lot of differences between them and the Spurs though. Spurs never went to 5 Finals in a row, the body isn’t supposed to do that, we saw the results of that with their team basically being held together by scotch tape at the end. Durant’s achilles gave out, Klay’s ACL tore after he had a hamstring injury bothering him earlier in the Sixers before that, Iggy (who I still think you’re downplaying the impact of on those teams) was nursing a leg injury since I think the Houston series, and if I remember right Curry had his usual ankle issues going on before the playoffs even started. Eventually fatigue and wear and tear catches up, even if it only means it will cost them this one year while they start to recover from playing less. Even those great Bulls teams have said they couldn’t have kept winning without that Jordan break in the middle, it’s too hard to keep going back and back and back to the Finals. Hell, did those Spurs ever even repeat as champs one time? I don’t think they did.

    I get what you’re saying and I agree they are a great system team and as long as Curry, Klay and Green are there and healthy they will be contenders, but I think THIS particular season that won’t be the case. Feels like that one year where there’s just too much going against them and they need to recuperate and come back strong again the next season. Yes, they beat Houston in 6 this year, but I think Houston got fatigued too, and let’s not forget Houston almost beat them in 6 last year too before Paul got hurt. They didn’t exactly breeze by everyone, I remember even the Clippers gave them a decent fight, other teams are catching up, I think Utah for one has improved majorly, and if we get Kawhi we beat the Warriors too imo.
     
  13. Weezy

    Weezy Moderator Staff Member

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    Oh no, you’re not a Warriors fan now are you? They don’t need anymore of those with how full their bandwagon has gotten :D
     
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  14. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

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    There’s only one team i like, but there’s only one player I’m really following. When LeBron is gone, I’ll probably start watching the Lakers again. I just can’t stand him.
     
  15. sirronstuff

    sirronstuff - Lakers Legend -

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    :Lonzoball Watching:

    I feel you bro, but then I took one for the team. I'll never like him. Besides, the pay for making gifs is pretty lucrative tbh.
     
  16. tada

    tada - Lakers All Star -

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    Yeah if you're talking this upcoming season, their success sits squarely on Klay's health. If he's 80+% though, I think they're still the favorite to win it all, unless we land Kawhi.

    Another huge factor that can't be dismissed, is how motivated Draymond would be in his contract year. I bet he'll come into training camp in the best shape he's ever been in, and I think his impact would elevate from allstar to superstar level.

    I understand your argument about fatigue, but I think it's mostly mental and not physical with the current generation of star players. They only play 33-35 mpg nowadays, compared to the 38-41 mpg of the old days, and they routinely take games off for load management. Mentally, I think all of them have a chip on their shoulder with the media constantly downplaying everyone not named Durant. They'll be ready to make some noise.
     
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  17. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

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    If an Achilles tears on non-impact, it’s 100% overuse or improper use. I’m not sure how much better most athletes are at taking care of their bodies than athletes used to be. Many eat poorly, don’t sleep enough, and party too much. At the same time, they’re often faster and stronger, so they put more strain on the body.

    But to play basketball from October to June year after year, you have to become better and better and resting. Not just staying the same.
     
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  18. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

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    538 data...

    Russ was in the "up-and-comer" category with a five-year value of 93.9m. He doubled his projected wins above replacement and now has a five-year value of 193.5m. Not a bad gain - $100m in a season.
     
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  19. Wino

    Wino - Lakers Starter -

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    It's been this way since the end of the 50/60's C Bags dynasty. The Lakers always had a hard time in the finals and fought through injuries. Happened with the West & Wilt teams, happened with the Magic & Jabbar teams and happened with the Kobe and Shaq teams as well as with Kobe and Pau. Every team that I know of that went the the finals 3 or 4 times in a 4 year stretch, usually had injury problems. The C Bags dynasty teams may have as well, I wouldn't be surprised, but I was not paying attention to their problems back then.

    The key to winning at that point lies in how well you can add to your roster over time. Showtime did an excellent job at re-stacking the team. They were constantly adding good new players to the mix after the started winning rings, guys like Rambis, Green, Thompson, McAdoo, Worthy, Kupchak, Scott, M. Lucas, etc. These are just the guys with recognizable names, there were tons of other guys like Spriggs, McGee etc that really filled needs. But that was the key to our longevity. That is much much more difficult to do nowadays, the money and salary cap is too intense.
     
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  20. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

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    Warriors - Current Look

    Point Guard
    Curry +15 (88) 6.68/3.54/2.38
    .Evans* -18 (49) 2.24/1.70/1.31
    .Bowman (Just signed; I'll have to look into him.)
    --Your hope is obviously that Curry doesn't get hurt, because he's their best player. Could put up monster numbers before Thompson returns.


    Shooting Guard
    Russell +3 (90) 6.42/4.15/2.40

    Burks -12 (59) 5.38/2.86/2.36
    .Poole**
    -5.44/2.42/1.99 (54)
    --Russ should work well both with Steph on and off the court. Burks is an okay backup.

    Small Forward
    (Thompson) +5 (68) 6.23/2.51/2.33
    Robinson -2 (44) 4.95/1.80/2.34
    .Smailagic**
    -6.11/2.25/3.94 (72 wing/101 big)
    -cf. Jonathan Isaac
    --I like Thompson's game, but he's going to be out for a good bit of the season. Robinson isn't bad, and Smailagic (who may be a PF) is really, really interesting.

    Power Forward
    Green +5 (72-Initiator) 4.36/4.11/2.91
    .McKinnie* -11 (70) 5.01/1.71/2.98
    .Spellman* -15 (82) 5.03/2.31/3.46
    ..Paschall**
    -5.85/2.30/2.40(61 wing 65 big)
    --I can't stand the guy, but Green does some things very well. Their depth is young and pretty promising, maybe Paschall most of all. He's already 22, however, and he'll be 23 when the season starts (okay, November).

    Center
    Looney +1 (93) 5.02/2.73/3.79
    Cauley-Stein +1 (88) 5.51/2.79/3.39
    --I like both of these dudes. I was really high on WCS coming out of college, and he seems to have played himself into the player he showed he could be. Looney and WCS won't draw the oohs and ahhs of some big man tandems, but how many teams have two centers under 27 who can defend (at least 1.6 DBPM) and posted 6+ WS last season?

    SUM +29 (411)
    Unit Rating: 82 (B-)
    Unit GPA: 2.80 (C+)

    They need Thompson back, but if they can stay afloat without him - say hover around .500, at worst, he can get them into the playoffs. Obviously you want to give him as much time as possible before he has to go toe to toe with some of the elite looking rosters in the West, but a favorable first round matchup would make the Warriors really dangerous.
     

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