President Trump

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion and Philosophy -(FORUM CLOSED)-' started by TIME, Jan 20, 2017.

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  1. revgen

    revgen - Lakers 6th Man -

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    Nope. These new regulations never existed before Obamacare. The new regulations are a way provide alternatives to ACA, similar to the group plans employees at large companies receive. A group of restaurant waiters and waitresses could never join together to negotiate with the insurance companies. Now they can. These groups can cover pre-existing conditions similar to group plans used by large corporations. Unfortunately, it doesn't go far enough to cover retirees and the unemployed.

    What's destroying Obamacare is Trump's decision to stop bailout payments to the insurance companies. These payments were illegal and never were appropriated by Congress.

    Rand Paul explains these regulations.

     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
    revgen, Oct 13, 2017
    #841
  2. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

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    It reverts things back to before the ACA because it screws people with pre-existing conditions like before the ACA existed. The method of organization is the only thing that changes in this.

    The only way this universal health care system works is if it's universal. The way you and the conservatives present it, makes it sound like it's a win, but it's only a win for insurance companies and those that are already healthy. Why would insurance companies insure pre-existing conditions at a reasonable rate if they can now target healthy groups and make a better profit? That leaves any companies that participate in the ACA to care for all the people with pre-existing conditions by themselves, and it will in turn make their rates insanely high, making any healthy person priced out of participation in the ACA, forcing healthy people to go with private insurance.

    It's a scheme to turn things back to the way they were before the ACA where companies can charge ridiculous rates for pre-existing conditions and then say "see? It doesn't work" when ACA prices go way up as a result.

    And BTW, before you talk about the problems with the ACA, I am not now, nor have I ever said it's perfect or even a great program. I still want medicare for all. But this legislation will just tear the whole ACA down, set things back to how it was before, and that's worse than the ACA for anyone that's not healthy.
     
    Barnstable, Oct 13, 2017
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  3. revgen

    revgen - Lakers 6th Man -

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    Wrong. Employees with large corporations are already covered despite pre-existing conditions. Ditto with these new small business associations. Employers can't fire an employee just because they aren't healthy. ADA and other laws prevent that. The same rules and laws apply to these new small business associations.
     
    revgen, Oct 13, 2017
    #843
  4. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

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    Not wrong! How does any of that even address what I said?

    It will price out the ACA, pure and simple. Are you claiming this change won't cause ACA insurance rates to skyrocket and people and employers won't feel that? Why wouldn't employers offer one ACA rate and another "healthy employee" rate through another insurance company/program, with different contribution requirements? The majority of their employees who are healthy would choose the other program, while the sick would have to go with the ACA plan at a much higher cost, because every one that joined it would be sick and need treatment.
     
    Barnstable, Oct 13, 2017
    #844
  5. revgen

    revgen - Lakers 6th Man -

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    ACA rates will skyrocket. But not because of these regulations. The rates will go up because Trump is pulling federal funding.

    That depends on the size of the group. The larger the group, the more leverage the group has over the insurance companies during bargaining.

    A larger group can negotiate a plan that is both inexpensive and comprehensive.
     
    revgen, Oct 13, 2017
    #845
  6. John3:16

    John3:16 Moderator Staff Member

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    Trump is a fool. ACA is going to fail. Why make changes to it and accept the blame?
     
    John3:16, Oct 13, 2017
    #846
  7. sirronstuff

    sirronstuff - Lakers Legend -

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    I'd like to be able to afford insurance again someday, and not feel like I'm bled dry to help cover those without jobs. Totally ok paying a fair share, but when that's over $1,000 a month for a single healthy individual, it's pretty messed up. It's cheaper to pay the illegal fine from the ACA than participate. That will now go away, and additional options will exist.

    bipartisan solutions for something like this are very hard to achieve

    The government should not be in the insurance business IMHO. Anything they touch is poorly run and too expensive because they are too big of an organization.
     
    sirronstuff, Oct 13, 2017
    #847
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  8. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

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    Ah, so sabatage the ACA and then claim it was going to fail anyway. Gotcha.

    It doesn't depend on the size of the group because it enables the largest group, the healthy people to pool into one group away from the smaller group, the unhealthy, therefore the smaller group that actually has a consistent need for the health care will be paying much much more.... what is that like? Oh yeah, just like before the ACA existed, and insurers could charge exorbinent ammounts for insurance for people with pre-existing problems.

    Other countries seem to make it work. But optimally, I'd be for a state by state Medicare for all structure. Let the government set forth a mandate and let each state figure out how they want to get there. That way states can have control, and see what works and what doesn't.
     
    Barnstable, Oct 13, 2017
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  9. John3:16

    John3:16 Moderator Staff Member

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    GOP Rep. Charlie Dent said President Trump was "ill-advised" in his decision to end key ObamaCare payments that kept premiums low for low-income people and warned that Republicans now "own" ObamaCare because "Trump is the president, and he's a Republican, and we control the Congress...we own the system now."
     
    John3:16, Oct 13, 2017
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  10. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

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    All true
     
    Barnstable, Oct 13, 2017
    #850
  11. sirronstuff

    sirronstuff - Lakers Legend -

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    The people I've talked to in government run healthcare like Canada don't speak too highly of their system.

    I'm a fan of smaller government though, so maybe I biased.
     
    sirronstuff, Oct 13, 2017
    #851
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  12. John3:16

    John3:16 Moderator Staff Member

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    VA is government run healthcare. I get it for free. The VA hospital is 20 minutes from my house. I pay for insurance to avoid it. Let that marinate.
     
    John3:16, Oct 13, 2017
    #852
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  13. sirronstuff

    sirronstuff - Lakers Legend -

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    My partner does the same, and he's disabled vet. He avoids them for even the most basic of services.
     
    sirronstuff, Oct 13, 2017
    #853
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  14. sirronstuff

    sirronstuff - Lakers Legend -

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    People that think the government cares about you, and is there to serve you are mistaken. It might start off with lofty ideals, but that's not what ends up happening.

    Our government is a very inefficient machine. So much so that the often subcontract basic functions out because others can do it so much cheaper, faster, more efficiently, and flat out better.
     
    sirronstuff, Oct 13, 2017
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  15. John3:16

    John3:16 Moderator Staff Member

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    A lot of people were talking after Eminem dropped his 5 minute Trump cypher diss.

    Guess he didn't think Trump was gonna come back blasting. LOL

    [​IMG]

    (yes, I know it's fake. Funny nonetheless)
     
    John3:16, Oct 13, 2017
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  16. revgen

    revgen - Lakers 6th Man -

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    Unless the group association is allowed to pre-screen their members health before the members can join, your argument doesn't hold water.
     
    revgen, Oct 14, 2017
    #856
  17. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

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    It doesn't need to be nearly that complicated.

    All an insurance plan has to do is say that any condition found with the first of any particular test on said insurance is considered a pre-existing condition and that plan will not cover it.
     
    Barnstable, Oct 14, 2017
    #857
  18. revgen

    revgen - Lakers 6th Man -

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    That depends upon who has the leverage. If an association of 10 million waiters and waitresses tells the insurance company that they must cover all members or they won't have a contract, the leverage is with them. 10 million accounts is a lot to turn down. If one insurance company doesn't take it, another one will.
     
    revgen, Oct 14, 2017
    #858
  19. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

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    And they will all have exorbitant prices like they did before the ACA. Tell me what was stopping 10 million waiters from banding together and forcing insurance companies to take waiters with pre-existing conditions at a reasonable rate before the ACA? Nothing. Yet this example you give didn't exist.

    No. I know you want to see this as a win, but there is no scenario where this is a win for anyone that is sick. It's only a win for the insurance industry and your ideals. People that are sick are going to be paying way more as a result.
     
    Barnstable, Oct 14, 2017
    #859
  20. lakerfan2

    lakerfan2 - Lakers All Star -

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    I honestly think we need a system based around Single Payer Healthcare. But that's just me. Remove the problem, insurance companies who charge absorbent premiums, and have a system that allows the general public to have access to the proper healthcare.

    Will it cost more via tax, sure. We all hate taxes. But, if everyone paid their equal share, ESPECIALLY the top 1% who consistently find loopholes to not contribute, redirect a portion of our insane military budget that our taxes go to, and spend a portion on developing a system for all, America would have a healthcare system like Canada.

    But we're America, a change like that would literally flip the economy because healthcare is profit driven, rather than driven by the need to give our tax paying citizens, the right to access health care.
     
    lakerfan2, Oct 16, 2017
    #860
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