Official Whine, Moan, Complain Thread 19/20-CLOSED "WE CHAMPS!"

Discussion in 'Lakers Discussion' started by puffyusaf#2, Jul 5, 2016.

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  1. sirronstuff

    sirronstuff - Lakers Legend -

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    Best player on the Clippers tonight as far as +/- in only 22 min

    of course that stat doesn't mean anything

    allegedly

    :dwightcrying:
     
  2. alam1108

    alam1108 - Lakers Legend -

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    Just keep pushing the knife deeper...
    16 points, 7 rebounds in 22 mins. Oh and 8/8 FTs.
     
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  3. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

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    What I was suggesting was that the role players are in place for a contender, but the players aren’t. Rondo is a crafty vet guard. Stephenson is an irritation. Kuz can score from the 4. Zu was a young, energetic center backing up an experienced 5 and an absurdly athletic 5. Hart is a solid bench wing defender. But the starting lineup isn’t near championship caliber without another star.

    Edit: I don't see how a team can start Ball or Rondo, Ingram, and Kuz and win a ring. And I'm not sure having James and AD would change that.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019
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  4. sirronstuff

    sirronstuff - Lakers Legend -

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    Not sure I agree with that at all. 3 elite defenders in Ball, Ingram, and AD.

    Scoring:

    AD and Lebron 20-25ppg
    Kuzma, BI 15-20 ppg
    Ball 10-15 ppg

    3 pretty solid ball handlers

    80 ppg on the low end
    105 on the high end

    I’d say that on par for pace and production in the league now to be an elite team. Curious as to why you don’t think so.
     
  5. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

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    I don't know what they would have had to give up to get AD, but...

    Assumptions
    1. Three elite defenders.

    --Ingram is my favorite Laker, but he's not an elite defender. I don't think this one's debatable. He's 68th out of 88 Small Forwards in DRPM. He's 359th overall in D-PIPM. I regard these two as the best defensive measures, but it's okay if you don't. There's nothing to bolster the view that I can find.

    Ball, on the other hand, scores very well on these measures. So, let's say he's elite.

    Davis is 13th in D-PIPM and top 10 in DRPM. So I won't debate it. He's elite.
    I think you get two elite defenders. And you get Hart who's very good off the bench. Then you counter that with Ingram, one of the worst defenders in the NBA and James, who grades out well and whom Lakers fans regard as a slacker and poor defender.

    2. Those FIve play

    Davis has missed 14, 7, 7, 21, 14, 15, and 18 games in his seven seasons.
    James has missed 18 games this season.
    Ball has now missed 40 of the 139 games he has been on an NBA roster.

    --Do we believe they all make it through a season healthy? Can we count on all of them for the playoffs?

    3. They Post Monster Numbers

    I think they do, honestly. James has shown that he cuts into other bigs' numbers, but they can find ways to coexist. But the USG has to come from somewhere.
    James is at 31% USG
    Davis is at 30% USG
    Ingram is at 23% USG
    Ball is at 17% USG
    Kuzma is at 24% USG
    --That's pretty ball dominant, overall. I can't see Ball averaging 10 ppg with those guys, as he can't do it with the current group.

    4. They Suck at Things
    They can't shoot threes or FTs.
    Ball 33%, 42%
    Ingram 29%, 66%
    James 36%, 68%
    Kuzma 32%, 77%
    Davis 32%, 81%

    I don't think it's at all clear that that team is a title competitor, but maybe it is. Now, the questions about how the team comes together, how they handle splitting up the ball, how they stay healthy, etc. That's the thing that's hard to predict. So, I won't :)
     
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  6. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

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    Edit: their high pace only makes their numbers less impressive, relative to other teams - not more impressive. Right?
     
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  7. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

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    And that is giving up none of those players. Wasn’t the rumor Ball, Ingram, and Kuzma?
     
  8. sirronstuff

    sirronstuff - Lakers Legend -

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    Most likely, but I was responding to this

     
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  9. karacha

    karacha Moderator Staff Member

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    At least that team is a playoff competitor, unlike this one.
     
  10. sirronstuff

    sirronstuff - Lakers Legend -

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    if healthy, we are a playoff competitor, but we have no reason to think our health will ever improve based on current ages/durability issues we've experienced.
     
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  11. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

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    Okay! Gotcha. Very different questions. So maybe keep the band together and add a star Fa.
     
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  12. sirronstuff

    sirronstuff - Lakers Legend -

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    I'm not sure, but it helped justify perhaps having a starting lineup capable of scoring 100 ppg before adding the bench in. Scoring is inflated, but we're only at 113 I think.
     
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  13. sirronstuff

    sirronstuff - Lakers Legend -

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    I miss being pwned by stats T.

    :Laugh:

    Why you gotta bring facts when I prefer to just be all up in my feelings? Y'know, the eye test, rose colored glasses, and such.

    [​IMG]
     
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  14. Doc Brown

    Doc Brown - Lakers Starter -

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    - Traded Zu because we didn't think we had enough money come FA time - Umm what? His cap hold was what? And this means you better get someone and by someone a top flight free agent. Stephenson/Beasley/McGee types are a fireable offense if you dropped Zu for the latter and not the former

    - McGee mad about playing time? - Uhhh do better and not play like a j******.....you know like Zu was doing

    - To get rid of Beasley - Dump a promising young prospect for Beasley? - Come on man. Who we signing in place of him that is worth anything? No one. So cut Beasley, eat the charge and keep Zu

    Beyond frustrated right now.
     
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  15. Weezy

    Weezy Moderator Staff Member

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    Oof, how long can we continue to value cap space above all else? I wasn’t even super high on Zu, but this is just poor team/asset management, I at least felt he could be used in a better trade.

     
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  16. OX1947

    OX1947 - Lakers All Star -

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    Lakers seem to believe they have a shot at Kyrie, Kawhi and Klay this summer. Adam Schien on Sirius XM Radio has a slogan that I like, it's called "Planet Delusional". The Lakers seems to be setting their colony there for the time being. They better be ready for a s***ty summer, because Kawhi aint coming and neither is Klay. Kyrie goes to New York with Durant is my early prediction, especially if the Knicks get the first pick. If I am Durant or Kyrie's agent, that's what I tell both those guys, anyway.
     
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  17. Khmrp

    Khmrp - Lakers MVP -

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    losing ALOT of faith in this mew front office
     
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  18. abeer3

    abeer3 - Lakers Legend -

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    didn't listen, but that makes no sense as you report it. sure, zu may have priced himself out of where we were comfortable paying, but that's when you move him to a capped-out team who wants his RFA rights for a pick or useful player.

    i have yet to see any convincing argument for moving zu for what we did. just another in a long line of pretty bad personnel decisions.

    hope rob and magic send lebron daily fruit baskets.
     
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  19. ZenMaster

    ZenMaster - Lakers All Star -

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  20. Azndude2190

    Azndude2190 - Lakers 6th Man -

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    Well, we could be the Knicks.

    #NotAllThatBad
     
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