Official Whine, Moan, Complain Thread 19/20-CLOSED "WE CHAMPS!"

Discussion in 'Lakers Discussion' started by puffyusaf#2, Jul 5, 2016.

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  1. vasashi17

    vasashi17 LB's Resident Capologist

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    Yeah, I was working on that groin injury so that he can come back quicker #teamplayer

    Meanwhile, you the cause of that groin injury cause you wanted him to blow out your back instead of coming quicker #creamplayer
     
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  2. sirronstuff

    sirronstuff - Lakers Legend -

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    :ShaqOh2:

    :Lukewaltonlook:

    :Brows:

    That was supposed to be "our little secret"

    Can I tell everyone about your butt plug collection now?

    :Kobe Snickering::Kobepuking:
     
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  3. sirronstuff

    sirronstuff - Lakers Legend -

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    Hey Lebron, is licking a Kiwi like licking @vasashi17 's butt?

    [​IMG]

    :LLLLLebronlaughing:

    [​IMG]
     
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  4. JohnnyComeLately2k6

    JohnnyComeLately2k6 - Lakers 6th Man -

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  5. wcsoldier81

    wcsoldier81 - Lakers All Star -

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    Nothing is looking better than a great booty in leggings ... and I'm out
     
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  6. karacha

    karacha Moderator Staff Member

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  7. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

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    I'm not sure what your ultimate point is, but it sounds like you're saying that these players are the lesser group: DLO, JR, JC, and Nance and these players are better: Ball, BI, Hart, Kuzma, Zubac. I don't know where you put the others from the list. Here's my stance: most of those players were good to excellent draft picks, and most of those players have not been noticeably improved from a player development POV. Players have benefited from either getting away from LA or by adding a superstar and a bunch of vets around them.

    Russell joined a 20-win team. It won 28 in his first year there, and they're trending to about 40 this year. And he's leading that team, with the most minutes played by any Net.

    New Orleans isn't good, even if you leave out the games AD has missed (they're 19-20 with him in the lineup). I've never been a fan of Randle's game, but if big number on a sub .500 team is an indictment of Randle, what does that say about AD? Btw, part of why I have dumped on Randle is that I've claimed his numbers ARE empty - and being sub .500 with AD is pretty good evidence of that. Randle has only the 5th highest MPG on that team, which means he's not good enough.

    Jordan Clarkson was a great draft pick. A home run. And he's no better than he was in year 1 (okay, year 2). He hasn't been developed.

    Nance is an injury waiting to happen, but he's a great glue guy. For a 27th pick, I think he's another very strong pick. Is he better as a player since year 1? I don't think so. Great draft. Poor development. Actually, the only area where he has noticeably improved is his assists - and that happened in Cleveland.

    So, let me be clear on my stance:
    DLO - good pick, poorly handled by Byron, shipped off by Magic, and thriving in Brooklyn. Legit good player.
    JR - empty stats guy since he entered the league. He has, however, worked to shoot a lot better.
    JC - great pick, no development (also, mishandled by LA - he is at his best with the ball in his hands).
    Nance - great pick, no development by LA.

    The others:
    Ingram is my favorite player on the Lakers. I thought he'd be a 20 ppg player by now. He made a huge jump from year 1 to year 2. I'm hopeful for where he'll go, but he has hit some injuries and is struggling to adapt to changing roles (is LeBron in or out?). Statistically, he's a nightmare on offense, but the Lakers are 5-6 without him on the court. So, is he contributing to winning? Is he being developed in some way that I'm missing?

    Zubac has showed so much promise, and he's only 21, but no one can pretend he's contributing to winning. Christ, he's played 1300 minutes in his career.

    At #30, Hart was a great pick. He played incredibly well as a rookie, and he's clearly not much improved this year. BTW, he's older than Russell. All of his offensive indicators are down, but his defensive numbers are up - so maybe he's a good 3 and D guy who will alternate. One season he'll shoot threes well. The next he'll defend well. I don't know.

    Kuzma: Russell gets a lot of s*** for being a volume shooter. What about a dude shooting six threes a game at a 30% clip? He's a dreadful defender, too, at 110 ORtg, -0.9 DBPM, and 87th out of 96 qualified PFs on defense (btw, Julius Randle is 96th out of 96). Is Kuzma a winner?

    Ball - not much to say that will change anyone's mind about him, one way or the other.

    There's something all those Lakers have, alright, that Russell, Nance, and Clarkson don't. It's called LeBron James. But look at the comparison of some of these players with and without LeBron:

    Jordan Clarkson career record
    With James: 18-10 (regular season), 12-8 (postseason) 64% winning
    Without James: 83-232 26% winning

    Nance career record
    With James: 15-9 (regular season), 10-10 (postseason) 63% winning
    Without James: 60-147 29% winning

    Ingram career record
    With James: 15-8 65% winning
    Without James: 53-85 38% winning

    Zubac career record
    With James: 9-7 56% winning
    Without James: 27-54 33% winning

    If all it takes to develop players is to sign LeBron James, then I get the Lakers' plan. But we all know that looking at a team's record isn't an especially good way to gauge player development. Did anything else happen since last year? Like, signing arguably the best player in the game, along with skilled vets who know how to play roles, like Chandler, Lance, Rondo, and McGee? So, just to reiterate: Lakers are drafting really well. And they're not especially good at developing players.
     
  8. vasashi17

    vasashi17 LB's Resident Capologist

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    I think my point was lost in the previous post. I'm not saying our kiddies are better than the ones we exiled (although I do understand why our new regime sent them out).

    Put any of our kiddies on another team that isn't really trending towards legit title contention (and yes, Bron on a team makes them legit) and those kiddies will produce stats on high usage. We've seen it with JC (highest usage on that Cavs team), seen it with DLo (highest usage on that Nets team), seen it with Jules (2nd highest usage on that Pels team)....heck, Thomas Bryant is even producing when given the opportunity.

    So you can move BI, Zo, Kuz, Hart or Zu to any team and make them the headliner (high usage) and they'll put up stats as well, but will it lead to Ws and more importantly, will it lead to playing deep into May?

    Development of our previous kiddies were under the old regime, so how is that mismanagement by Magic and Rob who have both been on the job together for only 1 full season?

    I know you're a DLo guy so had we kept him here and shipped #2pick (Zo) in the Moz salary dump to make space for Bron, then DLo could thrive along with Bron (since he is more of the Kyrie mold but imho nowhere near the star Kyrie is), but his usage rate and essentially his overall production would change playing with Bron and that is why I posted those Kyrie comments.

    So to recap, kiddies of old were sent out and became high usage and now they're producing some nice stats...but are those teams legit title contenders?

    So the kiddies we have could also be sent out to non-contenders and produce similar stats as high usage players.

    Why they ain't doing it here is cause they're figuring out how to play with Bron and their usage rate is reflective of that. Luke is going to also make sure he has them playing that way. For example, Zo ain't going to have the luxuries that DLo or Trae Young have with the ball. You make that sacrifice as a kiddie, cause your development will be done in May and hopefully June.

    If you have a problem with the Lakers player development, Rob and Magic have been on the job together for nearly 1.5 years now...so your beef is with those other guys from the old regime. In which case, I got no beef with you. I only got a problem with folks blaming Rob and Magic for player development of the previous kiddie and as for this current crop, for folks that value regular season development over postseason development...cause they ain't the same!
     
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  9. abeer3

    abeer3 - Lakers Legend -

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    I don't think rodg cares too much about maglinka; he's saying the lakers don't develop players. And there's support for that idea.

    The question of whether we punted the wrong youth, however, IS on maglinka, and I'm not sure they'll come out on top there. We'll see. I think magic's friendship with Byron unfortunately factored into the dlo dump, though.
     
  10. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

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    The last two posts have much sense in them :)
     
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  11. vasashi17

    vasashi17 LB's Resident Capologist

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    Byron wasnt the only coach talking that s***

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/clutch...ught-dissing-dangelo-russells-work-ethic/amp/

    As for choosing the right kiddies:
    Mintz stuff aside, DLo had lost value...Nets were actively taking on reclamation projects and/or picks with bad salaries, so that at least tells me how DLo's value around the league was perceived. So no matter what we thought of who was a better fit between DLo vs Ball, trading something as valuable as the #2 pick in a salary dump is just bad business especially when a "distressed" asset like DLo would be all that it took to get off Moz (for the possibility of a 30% max guy) and also get the 27th pick (which would be Kuzma or Hart).

    As for Jules, we valued him which is why he wasn't dumped like DLo, or wasn't traded at the deadline or wasn't denied a QO to make him restricted. Trading JC/Nance was essentially done to open up a 35% max (hello Bron) AND have enough cap to still have Jule's 12.4m caphold on the books with enough wiggle to match any offer in case Bron took 8+ days to decide in free agency, as he's done on the past.

    We didn't punt on Jules...we graced him with an exit. He and his camp decided that RFA be damned, he was going to walk. Unfortunately it cost us Nance, but clearing enough cap for Bron was enough of a consolitation.

    As for player development, Zo had a limited summer due to injury. Kuz and Hart seem to still be on course for an improved year. Even TB is looking good with the Wiz. So again, Magic & Rob are only truly responsible for that group of kiddies...and there's enough growth there to be satisfied in their sophomore campaign.

    As for BI and Zu's development... they're of the old regime. Mr. 5% body fat looks better when given minutes, while BI is learning the same way Jaylen Brown is learning (with Kyrie & Hayward) that playing with stars is different and it needs time for that s*** to click.

    Hopefully it happens by May.
     
  12. Weezy

    Weezy Moderator Staff Member

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    I think some things regarding Russ are being overlooked here, multiple things can be true. It can be true at the same time that he had a bad work ethic and wasn’t going to reach his best in LA AND that we still might have traded him too soon. It could be true that trading him (and Magic’s leadership comments) also motivated him to work harder and get better, so maybe he doesn’t reach the same level if that doesn’t happen, or that he’s also reaching his potential when he knows he has to if he’s going to get paid as this is the end of his rookie deal, something similar happened with Randle imo. You could also ask if Russ would be getting 17 shots per game next to LeBron James, same as many have asked what could Kobe have done if he got to jack up 13 threes per game like Harden. Kuzma has the 2nd highest FGA per game at 15 with Ingram behind him at 13, you don’t get a the green light for a million shots when you play with a superstar. All I’m saying is this isn’t all black and white, a lot of what ifs, a lot of other factors at play, a lot of scenarios could play out differently.
     
  13. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

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    Oh, I agree. Lots of things we don’t know. But if Kuzma can find a way to get his six three point attempts a game at 30%, i think Russ could do more. Like go 1-17 from three.
     
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  14. CarolinaLakerFan

    CarolinaLakerFan - Lakers 6th Man -

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    This is a mentally weak basketball team. From missing open shots, to missing free throws, to poor defending vs a Cavs team that were on a freaking 12 game losing streak. They’re mental midgets. And I don't wanna hear another word about Josh Hart being ready to be a full time starter either. He’s been equally as awful during this three week stretch too.
     
  15. alam1108

    alam1108 - Lakers Legend -

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    We can't even beat 8 win teams (Knicks and Cavs) without Lebron. What a joke. The boos from the home crowd are earned and that freaking sucks.
     
  16. ElginTheGreat

    ElginTheGreat - Lakers MVP -

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    Digging a deep hole for LeBron to dig us out of.
     
  17. sirronstuff

    sirronstuff - Lakers Legend -

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    Lonzo was pretty much non - existent in the 2nd half.

    We're not good enough to win without him having a decent game.
     
  18. 432J

    432J - Lakers All Star -

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    i've never seen an NBA team be so terrible at FT shooting. these guys are pros, there is no excuse to miss that many FTs every night

    imagine how many more games they could have won had they made their FTs
     
  19. JohnnyComeLately2k6

    JohnnyComeLately2k6 - Lakers 6th Man -

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    At this point, something HAS got to give, right? What a f'n embarrassment.
     
  20. Khmrp

    Khmrp - Lakers MVP -

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    these guys ft make me miss shaq
     
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