Discussion in 'Lakers Discussion' started by therealdeal, Jun 21, 2018.
Kuz tries to hammer it down, don't think he ever connecyed on a facial though.
After looking into it more, I was wrong. I can see why the Lakers liked this kid.
I do agree that he has some of his attributes. But Larry was one of a kind in terms of maturity, leadership, character. I. Know Mo looks like a good kid but Larry is among the best I have seen in my lifetime. Unselfish, outspoken, accountable, great teammate... I really can't praise Larry enough.
Larry was also an elite athlete which helped him creating highlights on both ends. Mo is more methodical and has a much better shot. But I personally would take Larry in a second.
I know fans like to move on to the new shiny toy but I can't just say that I'm not missing Nance Jr.
Anyone else think Wagner signals the end of Julius on the Lakers? If Lebron is coming, Lebron likes shooters. If Lebron is playing pf, where does that leave Julius? Wagner is our Lopez/Randle replacement. He's got some experience in college so he should be able to step in and contribute right away.
You may be right but sure hope we don't lose him for nothing. Our one Metta-like tough guy on the squad. Who else gets nose to nose and smiles with another team's big tough guy who's needing an attitude adjustment? And who literally inflicts pain when he plays to go along with the 5 years from his prime ever increasing talent.
I have to admit that the thought crossed my mind for sure. I still think we need to keep Lopez at the room exception if possible as a starting 5. Won't be able to switch everything any more though.
Julius is pretty much as good as gone.
Well whatever Mo's signing means it means Zu better start packing his bags. Not replacing Randel though and only partially replacing Lopez. Other than rebounding I don't see Jules physical toughness there or take-it-to-the-hoop scoring. He gets criticized on D too. Not a guy to back down others and bullying would-be post scorers just yet. Apparently not much of a rim protector either. He'll help draw a big from the hoop for our 2nd unit so they get some lanes and be a good locker room fit. I'll wait until he gives me a reason to be excited to say much else.
Too bad we got rid Nance Jr. Then We'd have Moe, Larry and not really sure who would be Curly.
If he's gone it won't be because this guy replaced him. I know that. If Randle is gone its because we were able to sign 2 max guys and couldn't find a trade for Deng.
A very legitimate big man and seemingly a very good person. These are the easy to root for type of people I like. Mo's versatility is going to really open up our offense. Everyone will get easier shots. Going to be a popular guy.
I think we all miss Larry. Every time we broke out in transition post trade, I was damn, we don't have an athletic guy to finish lobs anymore. However, I'm sure Lebron and PG could fill that void if and when we get them.
He really was a solid teammate in all the facets you listed.
The only thing that I felt Nance could improve on was his rebounding and his defense, which is where I think Wagner's size and motor will come in to play for us. Not that I don't doubt Larry's effort, but I think Mo will be one of those pestering hustle guys like a Kelly Olynyk.
It was also mentioned during Wagner's workout that Kuz and Hart were there and pointed out how hard he was working and how he could influence the team's culture in that sense.
like golden state has? just kidding. i think it's good to have a lob threat at the 5. i remember when bynum emerged and the whole offense just opened up immediately because everyone had to be concerned about the oop at all times. problem is that the lakers really value passing and hoop iq, and the list of players who have ball skills and who are scary lob threats contains like one name (anthony davis).
How Moe Wagner Fits With the Lakers
I admit, at first I was disappointed with the pick. I felt like there were some players with good talent that were also good fits, but after looking more into Mo Wagner I quickly identified how/why he caught the Lakers' attention. Moe (he requested it be spelled with an "e") brings many of the traits that turned the Lakers' heads for Kyle Kuzma. He's a fiery competitor, wildly confident, and possesses some unique attributes for a man his size. I think he's going to fit with this Lakers squad like a hand in glove. Here's why:
1) Shooting. Obviously that's his biggest seller, so I'll touch on it briefly. In the two seasons Moe started for Michigan he shot a consistent 39.5% from the three point line. Moe has consistent shooting mechanics that are repeatable and he shoots with tremendous confidence. He has the ability to pick and pop and naturally feels the space created when the defense collapses. This is a rudimentary tool that Brook and Lonzo used a lot with good effect. Obviously we like to space the floor and Moe also showed an ability to hit trailer threes (although for reasons I'll touch on, I don't think he'll need those as often as Brook Lopez does).
2) Post Play; Finishing with Either Hand. Moe finishes comfortably both right and left handed. It's another sign of the versatility this kid can bring to the squad and something that immediately opens up options for him. I'm not sure he'll get many post opportunities with us, especially early on, but his footwork is also shown when he attacks on short rolls to the basket in pick situations. Where you really see this is on the post and around the basket where he shows tremendous footwork. Watch as the defender struggles to keep up with Moe's footwork here.
3) Can Drive Effectively for a 4/5. Something that caught my eye really only after we drafted him and I went back to the clips was his ability to put the ball on the floor and drive. It was something I'd underestimated with Kuzma and I won't make that mistake twice with these Lakers. Moe has a unique ability for a 6'11" player to dribble-drive and get to the rim. He shows an unusual amount of agility for a man his size. Watch as he gets a guard in the air because they have to respect his jumper. Then he drives right past a solid defender in Thomas Welsh with a little hesitation/mini in-and-out dribble move and the quick finish over length. Looks like this should get even easier with NBA spacing. We're going to see him be able to get to the rim off the bounce more than we saw in college.
4) He Runs the Floor, Is Constantly Working, Always in Motion. With Wagner's quick feet and constant motor, I believe he's going to be a much bigger threat for early offense than Lopez is. Brook really tried to be a rim runner, but he's just not that quick or agile. Moe brings speed and quickness reminiscent of a young Joakim Noah. Below watch him close out effectively to the shooter and immediately leak down the floor. Now imagine instead of that mook who can't throw it over the defense, that's Hart or Ball or Kuzma. Moe gets an easy dunk all because of the effort he put in to run the floor.
5) Swagger, Confidence, Attitude. It's a little tough to really encapsulate this in a gif, but I think these ones will do the trick. Moe says his favorite player when he was younger was actually Kevin Garnett (not his countryman Dirk Nowitzki) and you can see a little bit of that in his game. He's not nearly the defensive presence that Garnett was, but Wagner has tremendous confidence and loves competition. Rob Pelinka said during his workout at the facility, Moe was talking trash and getting into it on the floor in a way nobody else was which helped elevate the workout into a new stratosphere.
6) Creativity, Ingenuity, and Versatility. Where this is easy to see is off the dribble attacking Centers. I'm not sure it'll be as easy for him in the NBA as it was at times in college and to be sure he can be over aggressive, but the flashes he shows... This is simply not something you see often from a 6'11" player. His ball handling is more advanced than you'd think and he shows great quick feet that I just am not used to seeing from a guy his size. This behind the back move is something he actually uses a lot of and is pretty comfortable doing it. I saw the ESPN guys (Chauncey I think) compare him to Mehmet Okur. I don't remember Okur being able to do this:
All in all, Moe Wagner has the makings of a guy who will surprise you Laker fans. I'm not saying he's going to come out and be the next Laker great, but I believe wholeheartedly that he'll be a very good player for us. He is a very skilled player with a high floor and a ceiling I'm not convinced he's reached yet. I believe he's going to shine in Summer League and given that Moe has a history already with Hart, he's going to fit right in. I'd say he's probably a replacement in terms of fit for Larry Nance even if they provide very different skill sets on the floor. He'll give the same sort of heart, hustle, and effort that made Larry a fan favorite.
Well they at least have one off the bench when it's useful, we don't really even have that. And for most of the season they still use a big talentless brute inside to save their more skilled guys the wear and tear. When they ended up having to go with McGee, that extra wrinkle confused Cleveland for a little bit.
Am worried about Dwight ring chasing there and finally getting a clue. If his ego will allow him to play for not much money.
i think i already said in this thread that he's more lopez than nance, imo. i think he's an nba player. i'm not sure i can make a strong case for who should have been taken ahead of him at 25.
i think those guys can be had pretty cheap. i remember when brandan wright was with dallas, he looked great in that role. and he was pretty talentless. if all you want is a lob threat to deploy here and there, they're around for not much, i would think.
the problem is finding a 30mpg starter who can do it all. i think you have to choose: dj/dwight/drummond/capela type or lopez/jokic/m.gasol type. there's only one anthony davis.
Excellent Breakdown and the same things I've heard basketball guys (I trust) on twitter echo as well. I'm thrilled to have this guy on our roster for many years to come
Lopez in terms of where he'll be in the offense, but Nance in terms of the type of attitude he brings and the passion he plays with. The way that Nance would go up and dunk on somebody, Moe is going to put someone in the popcorn machine and get us fired up that way. I agree with "who" in terms of who did we pass on that I'd take over him right away. I really like Spellman's skillset and Williams's athleticism, but Moe checks a ton of boxes.
You're not wrong, but it's still something we need to get. Larry pretty much filled that role for us and you saw how important that was at times.
Very well written real.
A few other things I noticed which expands on his high IQ that Rob praised him for the most. From the highlights from the Final Four game, watch how he works himself to grab offensive boards. He uses his body and know where to place himself to put himself in the perfect position. I love a guy who can get us 2nd even 3rd chance points. I don't think we currently have a player that does that for us the way he works.
The other was that sweet bounce pass he made to a back door cut. Never a bad thing when a big can dish especially in an offense as unselfish as we try to be.