Is Magic Back To Run The Show Again? (Ramona Piece)

Discussion in 'Lakers Discussion' started by therealdeal, Feb 8, 2017.

  1. gcclaker

    gcclaker Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    8,890
    Likes Received:
    20,212
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Wherever I am at the moment...
    Offline
    It was discussed around here the shift of GM responsibilities from Kupchak to Ryan West... It might happen sooner than expected.
     
  2. Weezy

    Weezy Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    17,905
    Likes Received:
    72,720
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Anaheim
    Offline
    That was an easy read as it's well written and had me gripped, but at the same time it was a very tough read. More revealing about Mitch than anything I've read before. I'm not one to read a single article and jump to "fire him!" mode right away, I've said Jim and Mitch need more time these past few years, but this article is the final push for me. This has been building for a while now and now I'm convinced Mitch needs to be replaced. His style as described here makes total sense on why we don't get certain FAs, and reading that list of guys we missed out on while waiting on Melo and Aldridge angers me all over again.

    We are in for some serious decisions coming up as pointed out on our rookies next contracts, with the trade deadline, and what moves we make or don't make could be huge for this rebuild. The Deng and Mozgov deals are stinging more and more every game, and I would love to hear what they tell Magic was the reason for those. Those deals alone I believe could be grounds now for both Jim and Mitch to be replaced.
     
    lakerjones and therealdeal like this.
  3. NinjaMonkey

    NinjaMonkey - Rookie -

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2014
    Messages:
    143
    Likes Received:
    209
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Offline
    It's time to clean house and at least Jeanie is Smart enough to realize it's time. Mitch and Jim need to go now.
     
  4. gcclaker

    gcclaker Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    8,890
    Likes Received:
    20,212
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Wherever I am at the moment...
    Offline
    ^Wasn't it Walton (and to some degree Shaw) who pushed for the Mozgov signing? I'm not clear about the Deng situation...
     
  5. Weezy

    Weezy Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    17,905
    Likes Received:
    72,720
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Anaheim
    Offline
    I remember reading that, but if true I'd think as a long time GM you don't immediately give your rookie 36 year old coach a player he asks for if the player isn't good and will cost a lot. Maybe if Luke meant to sign Mozgov for a couple years for a cheaper price, ok, but throwing him a 4 year deal at 12:01 day 1 or free agency, yuck. I don't know, if Luke asked for Mozgov he isn't blameless, but the actual deal is still on management.
     
    gcclaker and lakerjones like this.
  6. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2014
    Messages:
    28,475
    Likes Received:
    62,061
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    I maintain that both deals are palatable, even given current circumstances, if they're for 3 years with a team optioned 4th. Between the two, Deng's is still by far the least palatable and least capable of defense.
     
    lakerjones likes this.
  7. Weezy

    Weezy Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    17,905
    Likes Received:
    72,720
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Anaheim
    Offline
    I'm not trying to argue the "value" of those 2 deals, I've seen it argued round and round in circles in other threads already. It's been my opinion from day one that that Mozgov deals was horrible, and that remains my opinion. I initially liked the Deng deal, but I didn't know his game was gonna fall off a cliff in year one. These are both role players that have very little impact on our team and we're stuck with them for 3-4 years like an anchor around our necks. As I've said before, my issue isn't so much that we finally paid some mediocre players, it's that we passed on really solid players for years trying to get a star, and then when we did throw money at role players, it was for old, crappy ones. We had chances for years to sign some damn good 2nd tier players and we didn't, and as the article points out after saving money for this last offseason for years, Kobe being off the books, we wasted our cash on these guys. It bugs me, it really does, all that waiting for us to finally make some long term bigger money deals and it's these guys that have now been benched.
     
    Cookie likes this.
  8. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2014
    Messages:
    28,475
    Likes Received:
    62,061
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    Sorry to hear that Weez. I think it's been proven that Mozgov, while not a sexy signing, is literally the exact cost he should have been price-wise. The only really hard part of it is the 4th year which if we look around the league, most everyone got. Mahinmi, Noah, and Ryan Anderson all got the 4th year guaranteed too. Even players like Evan Turner, Allen Crabbe, Chandler Parsons, and JR Smith got 4th years. Mozgov's contract isn't even the one that'll truly hold us back, it's Deng's that will.

    Either way, we agree that change is needed. Mitch's antiquated way of approaching FAs and their agents is just unacceptable in today's NBA. His lack of connection to the landscape is just inexcusable really.
     
    lakerjones and EddieEddie like this.
  9. Doc Brown

    Doc Brown - Lakers Starter -

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2014
    Messages:
    2,571
    Likes Received:
    11,517
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Doctorin'
    Location:
    Hill Valley
    Offline
    Not surprised that Mitch is lost when it comes to free agency. That article validates all of my negative thoughts I had a few days ago on Mitch's reign as GM.

    Jeanie always gets no blame in anything that comes up, must be nice to have the writers in your back pocket. Ding can still eat a big pile of s*** for putting out that hit piece hours/days before free agency started.
     
  10. LTLakerFan

    LTLakerFan - Lakers Legend -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    34,791
    Likes Received:
    58,371
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    So Cal
    Offline
    I've been pissed ever since too. Surprisingly she's won me back with the huge Magic winnin' time move she just executed with Phil now formally out of the picture. And then reading not Ding but Ramona's behind the scenes and analytical analysis of it.
     
  11. EddieEddie

    EddieEddie - Rookie -

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2017
    Messages:
    613
    Likes Received:
    990
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Offline
    I was a huge critic of the Mozgov signing when it happened but a lot of that was the timing, with it happening right at the very start of the free agency period. Frankly was just a really sad reality check at how the Lakers have become an undesirable location that this signing was their big first move. That said, the Lakers had a clear need at C and the contract become more palatable as free agency went on and other big, and similarly ugly contracts, were handed. I felt the Deng signing was clearly worse. Older player. Larger contract. The Lakers just drafted their SF of the future at #2, so handing a 4 year deal to Deng made little sense. His ability to play PF was nice but not overly meaningful given the team had Randle/Nance.

    I agree Deng's contract will hold the Lakers back more but reality is the two contracts in general will hold the Lakers back. We're talking about 32 million, 34 million and 35 million in salary the next 3 seasons. Granted Ingram/Zubac are signed cheaply so it somewhat offsets but that is cap space that could have been used for far greater purposes than having two really really expensive older backups.
     
    lakerjones, Cookie and John3:16 like this.
  12. John3:16

    John3:16 Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    6,590
    Likes Received:
    15,641
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    CEO - Big Baller Brand
    Offline
    I think the approach was more PR. They chose to have a "big" signing vs a PR disaster of going after a superstar and striking out (again) and being left with nothing. At least this way they could say they got the player they wanted. And it was a big contract, but not when compared to other contracts thrown around.
     
  13. D-Fish Man

    D-Fish Man - Lakers 6th Man -

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2014
    Messages:
    1,681
    Likes Received:
    5,736
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Offline
    "I'm taking Magic at face value, that he's here to help," Jim Buss told ESPN. "He's one of the greatest basketball players of all time. Who wouldn't value his opinion? I'm excited to work with Magic for years to come."

    HAHAHA. Get lost.
     
    trodgers and therealdeal like this.
  14. EddieEddie

    EddieEddie - Rookie -

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2017
    Messages:
    613
    Likes Received:
    990
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Offline
    Anyone who was paying attention saw past the PR and this really was less about Moz being who they wanted and more about who they were settling for. Portraying Mozgov as the player they wanted was a sad reality check as to how pathetic the Lakers have become, in both being rejected and feeling the need to sell their fans on this. Doing nothing would have angered fans for sure but fans would have gotten over it once the reality of the team being in a youth movement settled in. Signing Mozgov angered fans and will anger fans for years to come.

    In terms of overall contract size for contracts handed out last summer, Mozgov was behind Lebron, Drummond, Horford, Conley, DeRozan, Beal, Batum, Whiteside, Howard, Parsons, Bazemore, Ryan Anderson, Biyombo, Evan Turner, Barnes, Fournier, Crabbe, Noah, Deng in size. So true, there were bigger contracts..... that said, there are only 3 people on that list, in a vaccuum and ignoring team specifics, I would rather have Moz and his contract over and that's Parsons, Noah and Deng. Not a fan of the Crabbe contract but guy is 24 and could do fairly well if not on a team that has a glut of swingmen and he had a larger role.
     
    Bryant, TIME and John3:16 like this.
  15. John3:16

    John3:16 Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    6,590
    Likes Received:
    15,641
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    CEO - Big Baller Brand
    Offline
    Lucky us! We got 2 of the 4 worst players (based on contracts) this past off-season.
     
  16. LTLakerFan

    LTLakerFan - Lakers Legend -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    34,791
    Likes Received:
    58,371
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    So Cal
    Offline
    I disagree! I totally believe to pry Luke out of his cushy GS job or some other team's head coach position they had to make him comfortable among so many other areas with this get his teeth kicked in rebuild (of course he wanted the job granted) .....with who they'd be willing to spend money on (that they had any prayer of getting) per his wishes in FA. Most pressing we needed a big man Luke felt had enough skills to approximate Bogut in his offense and hopefully defense. Shaw had him in Denver as well.
     
  17. TIME

    TIME Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    5,691
    Likes Received:
    22,255
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Lifelong Lakers fan.
    Location:
    LaLa Land
    Offline
    Good article, thanks for posting it.

    I've always been a Mitch guy. But, I don't like ignoring reality for the sake of loyalty in a competitive context.

    Things a GM must excel at in order to be an excellent GM: (not necessarily in order of importance)
    1. Cap management
    2. Leadership communication (bridge between ownership & coach)
    3. Negotiation skills (dealing with rival GMs)
    4. Player connection / persuasion skills (managing team trouble & FA attraction)
    5. Talent evaluation (drafting, FA signings)
    6. Inside Information control

    Based on what I can tell, Mitch excels at 1, 3, 6 and falls seriously short on 2, 4, and gets a split grade on 5.

    Does that make him a bad GM? No. Should he be removed. Maybe. His mentor excelled at all six. Certain things are trainable skills, while others like #4 are really personality based and Mitch will never have that personality.

    So, I see two options:

    Move Mitch into a Team President role, promote Ryan West to the GM and bring Dad in as Special Advisor to be Ryan's training wheels.

    Keep Mitch as GM but delegate his role in Free Agency to whoever can excel there (Magic, Ryan, Luke or ideally a combo of all three).

    Either way, the brewing changes bode better than maintaining the status quo.
     
  18. John3:16

    John3:16 Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    6,590
    Likes Received:
    15,641
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    CEO - Big Baller Brand
    Offline

    :Noddingyes:
     
    Battle Tested20 likes this.
  19. EddieEddie

    EddieEddie - Rookie -

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2017
    Messages:
    613
    Likes Received:
    990
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Offline
    What exactly in my post did you disagree with?
     
  20. LTLakerFan

    LTLakerFan - Lakers Legend -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    34,791
    Likes Received:
    58,371
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    So Cal
    Offline
    All of this that doesn't take into account any of what I replied with.

    "Anyone who was paying attention saw past the PR and this really was less about Moz being who they wanted and more about who they were settling for. Portraying Mozgov as the player they wanted was a sad reality check as to how pathetic the Lakers have become, in both being rejected and feeling the need to sell their fans on this. Doing nothing would have angered fans for sure but fans would have gotten over it once the reality of the team being in a youth movement settled in."
     

Share This Page