Discussion in 'Lakers Discussion' started by LaVarBallsDad, Jan 5, 2017.
Dirk when he heard Cuban tank comments n thinking bout his pay cut
I don't see how he could reasonably expect to get that much on the market...
Hell I'm not sure he can expect to get that much on a total contract again depending on the severity of this injury. How many teams with cap space are spending 20 million on a guy in his position? There's better options available.
Stress fracture in the leg will heal. But you're right. People are talking about the lack of cap space out there this summer. If people are saying Julius (a 23 yr old pf that is dominating) may not have many options, what sort of options are available for a 31 yr old sf that's averaging less than 13 ppg on 40% shooting?
disagree. barnes is a very useful player, and matthews is more useful than mozgov or deng (remember we wanted vet leadership and got none of it with those two).
we wouldn't have had to attach a fairly successful high draft pick to move those guys if we had to, and it's possible we wouldn't even by trying to move barnes if we had him.
there's literally nothing worse than deng's contract, save maybe noah's. same boat: zero on-court value, very little off-court value, 18 million per for four years. matthews has probably played more minutes than those two combined.
^^^Agreed...plus if Kobe played it smart, he woulda signed an extension during the summer when we had cap space to possibly help him get #6 and #7. Then #24 could have really been better than Jordan. Instead, Kobe was just as dated as Mitch in that he thought he could do it all himself (#MambaMentality) while being paid as the highest salaried baller in all the land coming off an Achilles, while other stars were getting buddy buddy with each other and forming superteams.
Not really smart...more like ambitiously dumb...egomaniacally Ledumb even.
23 mil for a “very useful player”, good for the Mavs I guess, that’s everyone’s dream. Dude averages 18 and 6, he’s not worth that money.
We had room for a 2nd max still, nobody wanted to come here and join a broken Kobe. It was what it was. We would have sucked whether Kobe took less money or not, so Kobe got paid while we sucked, and good for him. I maintain that it’s stupid to take $5 per year to “help” your team sign Harrison Barnes types and be freakin terrible when your owner is a billionaire.
So with that article about Julius's salary expectations, I'm having sugarplum dreams right now and I want to illustrate why it's going to be so important to the Lakers that they get at least one max player this summer.
First let's go ahead and assume we're waiving Bird Rights to Lopez, Pope, Thomas, Frye, waiving Ennis's non-guarantee, waiving our rights to Wear and Caruso as well (don't worry, they'll try to bring them back probably).
Secondly, let's assume we extend Julius his 5.5 million dollar QO which gives us a cap hold of 12.5 million for him.
Now for the fun stuff:
1) Trade for Paul George. This is in the best interest of all involved. The Thunder are cash strapped once Carmelo opts in. With Paul George potentially walking, they can instead trade for our 2nd round pick or the rights to an overseas player (for the sake of argument, let's say it's for 2 2nds). This opens a TPE for them that they can use at some point to maybe acquire help during their next season or instead let it expire so their owner doesn't have to pay a massive bill for a middling team. It's better for us because it saves us roughly ten million for this summer which lets us move around for more assets. It's better for Paul because we can immediately extend him for 4 years (5 years total) with a better annual bonus or he can sign a 1+1 extension so that he hits the 9 year veteran mark and then sign a much bigger deal the next summer. A rare win-win-win.
That leaves us with George, Deng, Randle Cap Hold, Lonzo, Ingram, Kuzma, Hart, Zubac, Bryant, minimum cap holds: 27.8 million dollars.
2) At this point, we're golden. We could attach Zubac to the Cleveland Pick, and a future pick to Deng and try to take back minimal salary OR we could simply waive Deng and maybe Zubac in order to get to a max deal for LeBron. Waiving Deng and Zubac means freeing up 11.5 million and getting us to 39.3 million. LeBron's max is 35.4 million. That leaves us with 4.5 million to spend on top of that. Of course, if we attach enough assets to Deng to dump him completley, we could end up with 46.1 million dollars while keeping ALL of our young core.
In that scenario, you can sign LeBron and still have 11.3 million to spend. Can you convince Isaiah to take 11.3 million for a year as a 6th man candidate?... What else is he looking at on the open market?
You can still bring Brook back with the room exception as well.
3) That of course brings us to the cap of 101 million dollars with a roster of:
At that point, you can give Julius a 4/60 million dollar deal. It's above his perceived market and we can exceed the cap to do it. The exciting part is, that's only a small bump over the cap itself so we're looking at a total bill for that team of: 106 million dollars.
Why is that important? Because we're staying under any sort of luxury tax penalties and fielding a ridiculously deep and talented team. Of course, this is the best case scenario, but it's one that is at least plausible. I could see a potential adjustment of possibly missing out on one of Hart or Kuzma in order to dump Deng, but the rest of it is completely within reason as long as the Lakers are thinking along the same lines as we all are.
The truly exciting part is that even if Paul George pulls the 1+1 deal so he can get a massive extension (it'd be worth more than James's at that point, around 4/160 million I believe), we can find a way to get at or below the luxury tax line because of the one-year deal for Thomas (or a suitable replacement at 11 million). Heck if we need to, we can cut/move Brook as well (hopefully Thomas is ready to go by then). In fact through the 4 years of LeBron's contract, the Lakers are dealing on house money. It's not until 2020 when Ingram needs to get paid and not until 2021 when Hart, Ball, and Kuzma need to get paid. At that point LeBron is on the way down and if we move on from him or he retires, we can avoid paying massive luxury tax penalties at that point as well for at least a little while. Eventually we're either going to have to pay a massive amount of money to keep the group together or break them into a smaller unit, but there's a good 4 year period where we have one of the most complete rosters I've ever seen while paying pennies on the dollar.
This is why I think it's important for the Lakers to strike now while they can. Once this window closes in 2020, we're operating with "just" the kids and they may or may not have what it takes to get it done. We might have to break them up before we can be truly competitive. At least this way, we can ride high with them and let the chips fall where they may. For the Lakers, this is a no-brainer. Being able to cash in on this team for four years when they're competing at the highest level and going deep into the playoffs, this is a cash cow waiting to happen.
That's awesome...except there is no way we sign IT if we sign Lebron.
this ver looks good too...
bam, 2 deep at every position lol
Nice breakdown Real!
I like IT as a backup, but lets say he wants no part of coming up off the bench, then I would do the Deng TPE route.
Pre-draft (ie before July 1st): Get OKC to trade an opted in George for Cavs 1st round pick. They get a 20.7 TPE and a 1st rounder, which they do not have for the upcoming draft. Offer George an extension, but his Year 1 20.7M still counts against salary cap.
Extend a QO to Jules and that gives us a 12.5M cap hold come July 1st.
After draft concludes, now we have our 2019 draft pick to offer in any trade moving forward.
July 1st FA Moratorium starts: We have 72M in committed salary (PG 20.7M, 18M Deng, Jules 12.5 cap hold, plus our youngns). Gives us roughly 30M to offer LaBron. We can get it to roughly 33M if we waive Bryant and Ennis, so LaBron won't get his true max, but depending on what scenario, he will sacrifice from 2.5M to 5M from his true max.
With LaBron committed, it doesn't matter if Jules agrees to an offer sheet at 9:01PM PT on June 30th, the Lakers will have till July 8th (moratorium ends on July 6th and from that point we have 48 hours to match any offer sheet) to lock in Jules. This gives plenty of time for LaBron to commit and for us to start recruiting other players who want to join up with our super team.
Offer BLo (or whoever) the room exception.
Now that we have Jules, LaBron and George locked up, we're north of the salary cap of 101-4M (projected). We can now trade Deng to any team that has cap space and we'll get a TPE that we can later trade for a disgruntled 2nd tier star. Remember, we can't aggregate this TPE, so that player would have to be making the amount of the TPE or less. Trade Deng, 2019 1st rounder and Zu to Sac for a 19.5M TPE. While we sit on the TPE, it won't count toward any potential tax, however once we trade it for a player, it will (luxury tax theshold projected to be at 123-126M).
Or like abeer alluded to, we can just hold onto Deng and wait for an Anthony Davis type to become available and force a trade to us.
I don't think it's a personal thing between those two. If Isaiah accepted a bench role, then I think they'd be fine. The problem was LeBron wanted help right now with Kyrie leaving and Thomas just isn't physically capable of being that guy for him. Seeing LeBron smile while guarding him when we played Cleveland told me they're probably not on great terms, but they're probably not on awful terms either. Hopefully... maybe.
Either way, you've got 11 million to spend on a 6th man who wants it. If IT doesn't want it, that's his loss.
not worth the money? that wasn't the argument. you were discussing mozdeng and said dallas was worse. dallas's money was MUCH better spent. really no argument there.
real's breakdown indeed drives home how crucial it is to sign at least one maxworthy FA this summer. IF you can get george and okc to do the opt and trade, lots more possibilities open up. but i'm not sure it will be that easy. there's also some creative stuff the FO could do in the event they want to keep thomas and/or lopez long-term, but each would require some faith on the part of those two players.
in short, there's going to be a lot of pressure and maneuvering that will have to occur in really short, coordinated windows. it will be a test for the new FO.
but the absolute key is locking up one guy--george is my guy.
Yep. And locking up Randle has become key as well. There's a couple guys in my office who are very knowledgeable Laker fans who think Randle is important enough that if we have to trade Ingram or Ball to dump Deng's salary so we can retain Randle, you have to consider it. Randle is not new and shiny like Ball and to an extent Ingram. But the way he has blossomed at the ripe old age of 23, can we be certain Ball and Ingram can have this type of impact? And it's a winning impact too. It's not big stats with us losing.
i'm not going that far. but yes, losing randle for nothing at this point is the height of lunacy. we developed him; we need to keep him. i think we can without having to shed youngsters. the only way ingram is leaving with deng is if it's in a trade for lebron. and i don't even love that.
still a long way to go until june/july, though. lots can still happen.
Heh heh, real, you so crazy.
How I felt writing that:
What I actually looked like:
Yeah there's no likely trade out there that makes sense for us moving Ingram short of something crazy like AD and I'm not sold we need that to happen.
My main point in that post was to illustrate to people, not a crackpot team, but the reason for urgency from the Lakers. ^^ That is why I want the Lakers to sign two max guys because it gives us a long window of high level competition. The team I created isn't honestly that far fetched, it's just the most optimistic scenario. If we can just do one of shedding Deng without taking salary or trading for George, we are in a position of massive strength not just now but for the next 4-7 years.
TF? Clearly they're not in the know, cause you absolutely do not attach BI in a Deng dump. And if they still want to, then tell them to...
In our 31 Ws, BI has only been a net negative 3 times. Comparatively, Jules has been a net negative 8 times and Zo 5 times.
In our 36 Ls, BI has only been a net positive 2 times. Comparatively, Jules has been a net positive 11 times and Zo 4 times.
Considering BI averages more minutes than both Jules and Zo, BI's impact on our wins and losses can't be emphasized enough.
We're 4-5 in games without BI (4 Ws coming against Indy, a depleted SA and Cavs lineup and tanking Orlando). I'm hoping we get one tonight against GS, but again, depleted.
Injuries aside, as BI goes, so too go the Lakers.