Brandon Ingram Discussion: Looking To Play Off-Ball More

Discussion in 'Lakers Discussion' started by Lakers2015, Jun 23, 2016.

  1. KB24

    KB24 Administrator Staff Member

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    Tatum is much smoother, his shot looks much better and he is more comfortable shooting the 3, he produces those numbers while playing in the deepest team in the league and he is a year younger and only a sophomore. Tatum has also already shined in the playoffs.

    I would take Tatum over Ingram right now objectively.

    And BTW...no Ingram doesn't provide MUCH better defense...Tatum isn't bad on D at all, has higher steals and blocking numbers than Ingram too.
     
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  2. wcsoldier81

    wcsoldier81 - Lakers Starter -

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    Yeah Tatum is smooth and will be a much better scorer .

    To be fair to BI , Tatum plays in a weaker conference , has had a better team and ...... a MUCH better coach and organisation who have not wrongly use him and " over accelerate his development" ( remember the stupid " if BI doesn't average 20 this season" Magic comment for a guy who averaged just 9 the season before ?)
     
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  3. abeer3

    abeer3 - Lakers All Star -

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    i believe i was scorned for saying that it was a) stupid and b) potentially damaging.

    it was both.

    he wasn't going to achieve it, and if he did, it would have been due to forcing square pegs into round holes. at the time, i favored a kawhi-like development trajectory, wherein we didn't ask him to start creating offense until he'd established himself as a solid finisher of plays (and as a defender). but we insisted on trying to make him a 20ppg point forward despite no evidence suggesting either was likely any time soon.
     
  4. tada

    tada - Lakers Starter -

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    I'm pretty confident Ingram and Kuzma would have averaged 20 ppg (or very close) this year if Lebron wasn't here.
     
  5. wcsoldier81

    wcsoldier81 - Lakers Starter -

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    Yeah on 18-19 Westbrook TS% like ( 3rd worst all time for players with a USG rate > 30% , only behind Wizards MJ and Farewell Kobe !!!!) for BI.

    Thanks but no thanks
     
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  6. KB24

    KB24 Administrator Staff Member

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    Both are fair/good arguments which I hadn't thought about. The pressure put by Magic publicly was puzzling and did more harm than good and Ingram's usage by Walton can also be questioned at times.

    With that said, Ingram doesn't even have "flashes" of a superstar. Tatum does and did show it in the playoffs.

    Ingram is an extremely low-key and very quiet guy who doesn't really possess or show great intensity/emotions. He is definitely not a born scorer or shooter. He is a solid passer for his position but not good enough as a full-time point forward like Simmons, Giannis, LeBron etc. He is solid at many things but not great at anything and unfortunarely terrible at shooting, the most sought after skill these days.

    Is he immensely talented? yes, because his versatility is extremely intriguing of having someone who does it all and does it all well.

    Does his personality scream NBA star? Not really yet. How many NBA stars do you know as quiet and introverted as Ingram? Kawhi comes to mind but he is very intense on the court (visible to the eye), something Ingram sorely lacks.

    Its still early though as BI is 21. Kawhi at 21 wasn't anything special either. But the writing on the wall is more in line with a good role player rather than a star just based on his personality. There is a reason stars are valuable...its because they are rare and have superior mental and/or physical attributes. Length alone isn't cutting it.
     
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  7. wcsoldier81

    wcsoldier81 - Lakers Starter -

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    It's great you are mentioning Kawhi here.

    We're basically asking year 3 BI to play like year 7 Kawhi

    Source : Cranjis McBasketball twitter

     
  8. tada

    tada - Lakers Starter -

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    Not sure what you mean. Ingram was shooting a TS% of over 60%, averaging like 18 pts the last 2 months to end the 18-19 season. Without having to adjust to Lebron, I'd imagine he would have averaged 20 on good efficiency.
     
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  9. abeer3

    abeer3 - Lakers All Star -

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    exactly what i'm talking about. skinny kawhi was always his ceiling, imo (check my old posts), but he'd have to be developed similarly. people are blaming luke, but when the big boss is making statements like magic did, what's luke supposed to do? they wanted to try to hasten ingram's development instead of let it play out. if anything, lebron's presence should be helping, but some damage was already done in that ingram became a ball-dominant player before he was ready and has to unlearn all of that now.
     
  10. TIME

    TIME Moderator Staff Member

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    Magic has always been prone to player over estimation. I remember years ago him saying that this was JR Reid's league now with the full expectation that Reid was going to be the next superstar.
     
  11. vasashi17

    vasashi17 Moderator Staff Member

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    I disagree with Lavar on many things, but the part about taking the kid gloves off, I'm with.

    Magic is only providing motivation to a player that wants to get there one day.

    With that type of mentality, you better aim for 20pts per...you better aim for more tbfh!

    And at the very least you best aim for making FREE throws. I've seen you practice them in the background while the other guys played that silly around the world 3pt game in practice..and then 2-6...wtf, bruh?!?

    Net -19 in roughly 35 mins played...took only 4 shots attempts after the 1st quarter... Had zero assists (yeah, I know guys weren't hittin shots tonight, but still then why only 4 shot attempts in quarters 2-4)...3TOs...

    No Bron and that means green light, Brandon. You had it going in the 1st quarter, so why'd you proceed with caution from that point on?

    My expectations are sky high for dude...so step your game up dog, cause you can't stay tiny in this game. The wolves are already out and ain't in no mood to toss you a bone.
     
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  12. LaVarBallsDad

    LaVarBallsDad - Lakers MVP -

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    Trade him.
     
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  13. fabfourlakers

    fabfourlakers - Lakers 6th Man -

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    he sucks. get rid of him please.
     
  14. sirronstuff

    sirronstuff LB Facebook Editor

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    I think he looks uncomfortable to even watch in the role he's being asked to play. But I wouldn't say he sucks. He's definitely not playing to his strengths though.
     
  15. tada

    tada - Lakers Starter -

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    Unfortunately time is not on our (and your) side Brandon.
     
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  16. Exonyte

    Exonyte - Rookie -

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    Imagine if we had Randle instead of BI now
     
  17. Khmrp

    Khmrp - Lakers All Star -

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    he hasnt looked comfortable(good) in any role this yr minus a handful of good gms like dall n sac (at home)
     
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  18. Savory Griddles

    Savory Griddles Moderator Staff Member

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    Maybe...but I think it would be more of a result of somebody having to score points as opposed to doing so efficiently and effectively.

    I was really high on Ingram when the season started, and I still think he can be a very good player, but it's not going to be here. Lebron and him are too similar in their styles and their needs as players. Kuzma works. Ball works to an extent. Ingram is just a bad fit. Unfortunately, he's such a bad fit he is tanking his trade value to the point where we essentially have to hope he figures it out QUICKLY or he will get sent off for an inferior player just so we can at least salvage some value out of a 2nd pick in the draft.

    It's probably less impactful than one would think merely as a result of the position Randle plays. Kuz and Lebron can't slide to the 2 so we open up the 4 spot for Randle. Ingram can barely slide to the 2. And Randle vs McGee/Chandler isn't really that big of an upgrade if we want to go small.

    I don't know who you could trade Ingram for at this point. Like I said, we have to hope he figures it out. But in year 3, he hasn't shown he can.
     
  19. SilkWilkes52

    SilkWilkes52 - Rookie -

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    Wow... I just don’t get it with the BI hate. I’m chalking it up to Russian bots trying to divide a fan base. Look at the stats post LeBron and see who is stepping up. Winning Basketball is a team game, not a highlight reel. Real Basketball heads will take a two way player who’s producing on both ends and just turned 21 .....Sheesh
     
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  20. sirronstuff

    sirronstuff LB Facebook Editor

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    Fickle fans are fickle, but for fans that have to donate blood to afford seeing games, this is serious business.
     
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