Discussion in 'NBA Discussion' started by alam1108, Apr 13, 2018.
That's why Clarkson got benched?
Is it going to kill people to admit that LeBron did need a little help for his 3 titles? Historically no athlete wins by themselves, not even MJ, Tom Brady, Derek Jeter etc... Kyrie was an important asset to the Cavs last title run. They don't win if he wasn't there.
Me either. That's what I'm dreading I'm gonna try to avoid all sports related things as much as possible.
What? That kid?
LLLLLebron is making his teammates worse. Larry Nance, Jordan Clarkson, Rodney Hood, George Hill.... these guys are all solid NBA players and their performance have plummeted since the trade. More evidence that LLLLLebron will stunt the growth of our young core. Do not want.
So true, people forget Wade and Bosh were two of the best players in the league before they hooked up with Lebron, and they basically had to sacrifice their games in order for the Heat to win, similar to how Kobe had to sacrifice his game for Shaq in 01 and 02 Finals.
Also Kevin Love put a PER of 26.97 (3rd in the league) in 13-14 and 25.41 (5th in league) in 11-12, and was considered one of the great PF(s) in the game before Lebron. It seems like Lebron has made him worse. Also Kyrie averaged 29.4/4/4.4 in the 2017 Finals and 27.1/3.9/3.9/ in the 2016 Finals, also making the majority of the huge shots in the series.
It infuriates me that Lebron is the one player who gets all the credit when he wins and none of it when he loses, and actually unlike Kobe, forces the players he plays with to subjugate their games. Meanwhile Kobe, who is considered one of the most selfish players ever, actually elevated guys like Gasol, Odom, Butler, Ariza, to the point that people tried to give them all the credit. People still try to say that Gasol (who never won before Kobe) was the most important player in 2009-2010.
Isolation Rocket ball for the win? Not so fast Harden, Paul and Dan Tony. Good luck adjusting .... time?
Cool, in other words Mike Antoni will be who he is, a guy who doesn't adjust and because of that his teams have never been to the Finals. I'm good with that trend continuing.
wait, people are still throwing out that hilarious "lebron has never had help in cleveland" BS?
how much help does he need at this point? this isn't 2007 where all he has is larry hughes and z
That dude never changes. Good. You do you, Mike. You do you.
Who does he have on this team right now that's helping him significantly?
Ilguaskas in 2007- 12.6 points, 9.7 rebounds, 0.9 assists, 0.5 steals, 0.8 blocks, 1.6 tos, 49.2 FG%
Love in 2018- 15.5 points, 10.3 rebounds, 1.4 assists, 0.6 steals, 0.5 blocks, 1.8 tos, 40.2 FG%
Larry Hughes in 2007- 11.3 points, 3.9 rebounds, 2.4 assists, 1.4 steals, 0.4 blocks, 34.7 FG%
JR Smith in 2018- 8.8 points, 2.5 rebounds, 1.2 assists, 1.2 steals, 0.2 blocks, 37 FG%
I think the real question of the "no help" mockers is why/how did Lebron or the coaching staff (which is 90% Lebron i have a feeling) turn a borderline franchise player in Kevin Love and a group of solid B- NBA rotation players like Hood, Hill, Green, JR, Tristan, Nance, and Clarkson into D-league talent?
It ain’t the players. It’s what you have been seeing since high school. I tell you again it’s the system.
You have no examples because there's no proof of what you're saying. That same system worked just two years ago with Kyrie Irving. That same system worked just fine with Wade and Bosh in Miami.
The truth is his team sucks and they're playing like **** right now. Whether you like it or not, the "no help" narrative is just the truth. The team he has around him is a lottery team. The numbers prove it. The eye test proves it. Trying to argue otherwise is just fooling yourself.
@therealdeal No, let me clarify, the system works, but it’s not sustainable. Also everything has to be perfectly in place for the system to shine. That Heat team was structured beautifully for it. James, Wade, and Bosh, had role players that were the best Lebron has ever had (Ray Allen, Birdman, Mike Beasley, Rashard Lewis, Shane Battier, Mike Miller, if you wanna add Chalmers you can, Norris Cole, etc) those teams were stacked. But even with that they were only able to win 2 out of 4 championships. And Kyrie was the difference in that 2016 championship. If it wasn’t for him, Lebron would be 2-6 in the Finals. But Kyrie more often than not played ‘outside’ the Lebron system. You saw it when he played and you also saw the frustration sometimes. Which is why my narrative of him wanting to leave it, in my mind anyway, holds true.
But this is my point as to why I say it’s not the players that you can blame and the whole “he doesn’t have help” narrative is a stupid and also unfair to everyone on the team because they are simply playing within ‘his’ system, but they are not built for it. You honestly think these “bums” would still be bums in the Warriors system or the Spurs system or heck even our system for that matter? I believe they would live up to their potential and be as good as they could possibly be in a system that requires movement, cuts, screens, back doors, pick and rolls, etc. and not just watching their best player do his thing and wait for him to pass it to you.
Russell Westbrook runs a similar if not the same system in OKC. Lebron is just a smarter and more efficient player than Russ.
The examples are when you watch the games. The proof is the eye test coupled with the results. Being in eight finals and only winning three when you are considered the best in the world during that stretch is a letdown. Being down 0-2 to a young team that shouldn’t be winning is a letdown. Same with Russ, he’s managed to average a triple double twice, broken all types of records, but his team will never win anything. It’s their mindset, it’s their system. It can work, but ultimately it doesn’t.
Russell Westbrook can score a 40 or 50 point triple double and his team loses. Lebron can score a 40 point triple double and his team loses. Surely that’s not coincidence.
Who the hell makes this playoff schedule? The Cavs and C Bags don’t play until Saturday, and the Warriors and Rockets play tonight and then not until Sunday. This isn’t the Finals, no team needs 4 days between games, neither does the media.
Westbrook routinely leads the league in Usage and has a high usage percentage than Lebron in each of the last five years. LeBron's usage is closer to Durant's actually. Most stars are generally around 30% or a little more. The numbers dont support your theory.
And yes I believe these players would be doing exactly what they are now in any other environment. Unless of course you're talking about their personal stats inflating because they're not with LeBron, but would any of these duds be here without LeBron? F*** no. So the argument really is moot. Like the idea that Love would go back to being a 30/30 player is sweet and all, but he would also go back to 30 wins so is it really worth it?
Houston seems to be playing some defense
This could be a more competitive series than I was hoping for, but we'll see.
What DanTony team has ever played a full game of D in the playoffs?
I fully expected Houston to win tonight, I didn’t bother watching for that reason. It’s a must-win for them, they could not go back to GS down 0-2, they worked all season to win this home court advantage. I wouldn’t be surprised if they picked one up in GS too and this goes 7 games.
The thought of a Houston vs. Boston finals is looking super probable right now. I think I'm gonna be sick.